there seem to be lots of different Aikido schools I went to Aikido class on Tuesday they are affiliated to http://www.aikikai.or.jp/Eng/index.htm what they were practising looked much harder than I expected, it was pretty full on, is this normal Aikido practise, I expected it to be really soft and gentle. But not so, the training was more full on than the Bujinkan stuff I've been doing. Just wondered if this is normal for clubs affiliated to the above ?
Really? Which Bujinkan school are you at? Is this as in ninjitsu school as I would put taijitsu schools far more full on and practical than Aikido training I have done. SONSHU
Yeah Ninjutsu or Budo TaiJutsu, I'm probably going to quit the Ninjutsu and try Aikido, their training was much more full on and the standards were higher.
A hard practicing Aikikai school? Weird, the most full on Aikido schools are normally the Yoshinkan style. I also practice Aikido and Tai Jitsu and in my experience the Tai Jitsu is definately more full on and deliberately practical. Although in Aikido I'm kinda reverse engineering things I already should now. Coming at it from a different angle is in my opinion very condusive to learning. Col
Its spot on take the good stuff out of it Just milk Aikido I find 80% of it to be less about saving me in a fight however amoungst the 20% of useful stuff there are some jemstones! Just steal them SONSHU
I don't like the MMA idea of 'stealing' things which is why I call myself a cross-trainer (pedantic, I know ). I want to 'own' the things that I want. If you want to continue this conversation (I now you'll want to ). Fire up a new thread in Gen Disscuss. Col
As in any form of combat take what works for you and practice practice practice. there are many exponents of judo (Neil Adams one of them) who took a technique that suited them and perfected it for them. have a set of core techniques that work for you and then look at the others and work out why they don't work (I know that my diminutive size makes some techniques virtually impossible against a larger opponet but at the same time others devastating)
What on stealing techniques? I'll let you fire it up on the subject board as I know YODA will chip in as he seems pretty liberal. SONSHU
YODA? A JKD Instructor? y`know he may have something to say on the subject "A hard practicing Aikikai school? Weird, the most full on Aikido schools are normally the Yoshinkan style." well Dan`s old School were descended from Aikikai (ish) and they were pretty full on, if Dan`s any yardstick
the 'hard' ness of an aikido dojo(as is the case for any martial art i imagine) is largely dependent on the originating school. but as you all must have found similarly to me the practice within schools can differ greatly.. I am of Yoshinkan lineage. imediately in those of you who have heard of the yoshinkan and its training the 'prewar' alarm bells are ringing. its true that much of our training is hard and tough but there are some sensei within the yoshinkan and shudokan that prefer a softer way of training. similarly the aikikai, although postwar technically and largely considered to be the final result of aikido's transition into a softer art is affected in the same way. we shouldn't forget that osensei never forsake the older schools. he never said 'atemi is bad'. quite the opposite. so in every school any assumption you make of the class that you are thinking of attending can only be generalising.. anyway i dont know quite where im going wiht this and if i dont stop now i might never.. :S Its all aikido at the end of the day.. my master used to tell us off for discussing aikido in terms of 'styles' he'd say ''there is only one 'style' of aikido''. there is only one aikido. there may be lots of schools but all of them teach this 'aikido', hard or soft it doesnt matter as far as im concerned. (im just one of these sick little individuals that enjoys the pain)
aikido is createt for harmonie love and peace ****************************** true victory=self-victory
Yo, Im in the naniamo area for a few days and i was wondering if there are any schools nearby? I can find them on the internet or in a phone book, but if anyone here belongs to an aikido club in nanaimo, id love to hear about it.
Remember the founder said always start with kihon everyday, always start every class with tai no henko and mortei dori kokyu ho, from strong realistic grips.uke must grab as strong as possible to try and restrain tori, ukes attacks should be as effective as the techniques, or its not real, you want more hard practice than kino nagare so you build a strong body, and can handle much stronger opponents. These are the words of the founder,
I dunno Steff. What you say is technically true, and I have the greatest respect for your ability but you seem to be picking O Sensei's sayings to suit yourself, no disrespect intended in any way. The founder started every day with an icewater bath and hours of prayer before he got to the kihon and I have no intention of having an icewater bath at 4am. In fact I would be interested to know if any Aikido student does such things. O Sensei also said I have done many years of hard training, fighting guys twice my strength or weight, others with 3 times my experience.... What I mean is...take Willie (might have been Gavin, 2 different guys at the same time) Bell...a judo guy from Glasgow, he went to Japan to train...they did a line-up on him (because he went specifically for hard practice)....45 minutes fighting....but he had a new dan partner every minute and they don't get a water-break....to me that is approaching the ultimate in hard training and I am pretty sure most fighting arts have such regimes at the highest levels of competition training. I have never seen an Aiki practice where anyone had so much as 10 minutes hard training with a fresh partner every minute and that is the norm in a lot of Judo clubs. I regularly had to do 10 minute line-ups against heavyweights (I am about 60 kilos) in my judo training to improve my technique. (We did hard practice, we did fighting practice, we did smooth practice, we did variations and combinations, standing/sacrifice/groundwork. In fact some clubs that did not have a good technical instructor got a reputaion for hard physical training because that was all the instructor could do....make you sweat.) 5 minutes like that would destroy most Aikido people. 15 minutes would have the club indicted for murder. The purpose was not to build technique but to build spirit. I honestly do not think that any Aikidoka in the world is in the physical condition necessary to do a 45 minute line-up. It does not detract from the beauty of Aiki. I think where you are coming from is what Shioda said when he said 'paying your dues' and that is lacking in many people's experience I agree. But being hard is not Aikido imo.
Mark, one of the major difference I see between Aikido and Judo is the 'conditioning' aspect. Judo schools recognise that a fight can be a long hard slog, but isn't this the anti-thesis of Aikido? Shioda also said, and I paraphrase, "That to practice a Budo requires physical fitness, but to practice aikido the practitioned need only the strength to lift 6 lbs" Might have been 8 lbs, I can't remember I'll dig the quote, its in his 'Dynamic Aikido' book. Colin
Do you mind if I say something? I have participated in, and overseen, gradings and sessions where the aikidoka MUST continually deal with high grade opponents for 30-60 mins. These people have had to work hard. I agree that the majority of clubs do not do such things but that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. I know some very fit, very hard aikidoka. Judo tends to be a different ball game as that is a hard sport and requires a different level of fitness. As is kick-boxing and Muay Thai. Just please don't think that all of us aikidoka are incapable of doing hard training. Afterall, that is what conditioning the body and spirit is all about.
My post was not intended to say that Aikido (or Aikidoka) is not 'hard' or anything like that What I meant was there is a place for all types of training within the art. On top of that I actively encourage 'hard' training because it builds character and posture in ways that soft training cannot. I will give another example: (again sadly from Judo) A guy is entering a competition or going for a high grading, for a period of 3-5 weeks before it, he will be the most exhausted person leaving the mat, every night. His training partners will give him no respite, no quarter, they will drive him into the ground, he will never leave the mat having won all his fights...they will line up on him, target his weaknesses (not injuries), at the end of each class there will be a round of anaerobic circuit training and he will not be allowed to rest even then. And he acknowledges with smiles, nods and laughter the effort his partners are making for him. 2 weeks before his test it all changes to pure technique, light training, methodology and study of tactics. While anyone else in the class can practice as hard or soft as they wish....our man will only be trained with as it now suits his needs. He will in fact, even if this shocks you, refuse to fight certain people because they would be 'too hard for him' even if they went easy. For the circuit training at the end he will most likely not even break sweat. He acknowledges this with smiles, nods and laughter. The entire time period is designed to bring him to a higher level of ability. Hard training, soft training. Exactly as you see in Aikido This of course is a very stylised answer to a larger question. I am not sure if I have already said this but Shioda called it 'paying your dues'. Paying your dues is not pleasant or easy, it is difficult, painful and leaves you in no doubt that you have mountains to climb because you certainly not as good as you thought you were. But hopefully it will help you get there in the long run
Eating humble pie It must be getting familiar to people on this board now. Sorry chap. I tend to feel I always have to justify the aiki martial arts and so I can go off on one occassionaly. Usually resulting in me taking my feet out of my mouth and apologising. I understand what you are saying and I concur. The judo training method you describe is something that goes far beyond what I have experienced myself, either training or teaching, in a dojo. My only excuse is that your first post was right and aikidoka tend not to need (at least nowadays) such a high level of fitness. The training you describe is classical competition training (which I believe a Judo grading to be like - correct me if I'm wrong but you progress by beating opponents of a higher grade than you; or is that just in the dan gradings?) with hard physical training eventually being tuned to technique and motor neurone honing. Sounds like you have a good club with good instructors who know their stuff.
I have not been on a Judo mat for 10 years The last time I saw a grading for a black belt in Judo it went like this: You get a fight, if you win it completely you get another. Both fights are against people also fighting for their black belt. If you win both you are put out to fight 3 guys in a row (all going for black belt but they did not win, or did not win well enough, in their 2 fights). If you beat the first guy, you fight the second guy, same again for the third guy. All wins must be complete, no breaks in between fights except the time it takes to bow to your opponents and fix your kit. (Having said that some guys developed an entire martial art out of fixing their kit lmao) You certainly have no need to apologise in any way for your post because I only saw you make fair comment. But yes you have spotted that I have a preference for this way of training. Whether it is over a period of weeks or a lifetime. Sadly I sometimes feel that it is to my detriment because when I see hard training I think soft, and vice-versa.
