Aikido is not technique; not fighting

I have come to these realizations after many years (more than half my life) training in MA . The funny thing is that all true MA have these principles embodied in them, and believe it or not, I am not the first to discuss such concepts. The most difficult concept is remaining open to them and then encorporating them into practice, which the encorporation has been something recent for me. I fully understand the value and practicality of my 19 going on 20 years in aikido (the other 6 or so years were "crosstraining") but this approach is the natural progression that I feel inspired many other high ranking and well established martial artists to come
and seek out o senseis instruction. I am certain that shioda sensei was quite an accomplished martial artist prior to his 10 years training with o sensei. Having an open mind I think will help to understand exactly how expansive aikido is and that the box that even I used to try and fit it in isn't really a box at all. Also, to think that these concepts equates to not being able to do MA or aikido results in limited application in any scenario dojo or street.

 

Whilst I am new to relatively Aikido compared to most here from what I have seen I think that whilst aikido has robust fighting applications it also has an element of spiritual training involved in it. More so than other martial arts. However it is this spiritual approach that has given it a bad name in some respects.

For it to be truly effective you have to train in as realistic an environment as possible.

 

Aikido training

Yeah absolutely, far too many "masters" of Aikido hide ineffective technique behind mystical connotations. As Chris says the philosophy of Aikido is learnt through the pores of the skin. Sensei koyo often reates martial arts training to that of making a Japanese sword...

"THE PROCESS
When the master swordsmith sets out to produce a sword he shall attempt to gather the best material. When a teacher decides to accept a student he shall be looking for sincerity of purpose, commitment and spirit. Contrary to what is often said martial arts are not for everyone. One must have a deep desire to study and be prepared to endure difficult training.

IMPURITIES
The first thing that must be done to the material when making a sword is to beat out the impurities in the metals. This is done by placing them in a fire and bringing it to the correct temperature. In the same way a good teacher shall know how much pressure to place upon the student. Too hot too soon may damage the blade/student, while not hot enough shall produce nothing at all. Impurities in a student may be false expectations, expecting almost immediate results, lack of spirit, uncertainty or lack of commitment. All of these shall be 'beaten out' by the instructor. Often the student shall feel out of his element. The strict discipline and intense concentration demanded in training may intimidate him. This is where the sempei senior student comes in. He shall provide most of the instruction as the teacher teaches heart to heart by example rather than explanation.

The process cannot begin until this is done. Weaknesses may include being too strong, over-confident and too opinionated. What is demanded is a casting aside of expectations. Do not be in a hurry to progress; you may be moving in the wrong direction. I came up with a good formula - TURN UP AND SHUT UP. I had been training for around eight years and had my dan grade from one master when another took residence in Britain. My concept of aikido along with myself was turned on it's head. I was not given instruction, simply shown a technique and told to practice it over and over again.

This develops the hard edge. Continual rigorous training in simple, effective and pragmatic techniques. The soft backbone of the art is in studying the underlying principles gaining the ability to be flexible in body and mind, capable of acting instinctively to changing circumstances.

When the swordsmith has married the two metals together and beaten out the impurities the sword begins to take shape. So too with the martial artist. Having mastered his own weaknesses, learned solid techniques and gained a knowledge of the principles of his chosen art - he can now begin serious study.

This usually begins at shodan, the first level of black belt. Many students think that achieving black belt is the be all and end all of martial arts. It is in fact only the beginning. Perhaps by now our sword is ready, but now it must be polished."
Sensei William Coyle

Appologies for the length of post, though I really feel these paragrahs sum it up brilliantly.
Gerry

 

@ Makotokai

No worries about the length of the post. I'm sure many readers, including myself appreciate the analogy, however, I'd like to point out a few items in my posts below. I'll take them one at a time, at a nice easy pace, giving everyone a chance to think them over and reply in kind, before moving onto the next items.

@ Rebel

I've been trying to come up with a better way of explaining, as per your request, and think I have one, though it does little justice to what I have explained before. I'll post that eventually as well.

 

As for the process of forging a samurai sword...one important aspect is indeed missing. That of the spirit that embodies the sword, both from the swordsmith (katanakaji), and the warrior.

When I was a teen growing up, I knew a Vietnam vet who had found a WWII Japanese officers samurai sword in Vietnam. He kept this as a souvenier and some years after his tour with the USMC, traced the family name in Japan and returned the sword to that family. He understood the significance of this artifact, and that returning it would now allow that fallen officers spirit, and family to rest in peace.

 

Oh, the hypocrisy...

Oh, the hypocrisy...

and

So, when a teacher decides to accept a student (this is about as early in the process you can get), this teacher is somehow able to judge a potential students desire, commitment and spirit? The same spirit that is often referred to here as mystical conotations? Or mystical mumbo jumbo? How do they judge this spirit? Do they have some orb given them by a level 74 fire breathing dragon?

Is this the same spiritual approach that has given aikido a bad name? And it starts with a teacher that can judge these things? Is it their aikido training that has allowed them to become a fine judge of spirits (not the drinking kind), or have they recieved some other mystical, and innate training from a different master who specializes in these things?

As for heart to heart teaching, is that a form of the same heart/mind "shin" as in spirit, vitality, heart, mind, inner strength 心? Or is it some other type of mystical mumbo jumbo...heart to heart teaching?

So in essence, this one individual has some ability other than practical training and application of technique to allow them to see into and perhaps judge the spirit, depth of ones commitment, and understand their desire to learn long before the individual really learns anything? Or perhaps within a month of this poor souls introduction to the art of aikido the teacher understands that this individual will not last much longer, or do they also know exactly how long this individual might last?

Is it these very aspects that seem to be a running thread here on the aikido forum that give aikido a bad name?

 

You quote 3 different people with 3 different points of view and cry hypocrisy? Do you even know what the word means? I don't speak for any of these people and they don't speak for or each other. There is no hypocrisy. Just different points of view.

My opinion of the esoteric elements of Aikido and how there study too early or even at all is based on a practically uninterrupted 10 year study of Ki Aikido. Time and again I've witnessed people with and without any martial skill take up Ki Aikido and learn nothing of any martial significance.

The only people who did learn anything of value were those who came from rough backgrounds where getting into fights was "normal" or those people who had previous experience in other martial systems.

I believe the spirit makotokai is talking about is the same martial spirit koyo talks about. There's nothing mystical about that. For lack of a better way to describe it, it's the fire in your belly. The drive behind a technique that makes the difference between uke being flat on his back and uke countering your technique. Going from 0% to 100% in an instant.

You need to rethink your approach and find another weak point to attack.

 

Yeah thats exactly what I mean, and it's this fire that I believe teaches us every single aspect of Aikido. Training with a strong positive spirit allows the principles of Aikido to permiate all aspests of our everyday life. Without the need for any intellectual thought... simply turn up and shut up.
This type of trining has the added benifit of weeding out the aikibunnies.
Gerry

 

hypocrissy - a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved attitude.

I'm just trying to garner if it is okay for some to talk about the spirit that makotokai and koyo talk about as having nothing mystical about it, but when others (like myself) talk about these things it is what gives it a bad name?

Does one have to be koyo or makotokai to introduce spiritual concepts of training onto the forum?

Secondly, I'm not attacking anyones points, weak or otherwise...I'm just saying that what some on this thread allocate to mystical mumbo jumbo and that which gives aikido a bad name from these supposed far too many masters seems to be quite similar to the mystical mumbo jumbo of looking into ones spirit, fighting or otherwise, and being able to judge this individuals capacity to learn aikido.

That is the hypocrisy of it...a publicly approved attitude when it comes to discussing these same things which I have introduced as my topic for this thread are relegated to giving aikido a bad name, but the same publicly approved attitude is then used to offer up instances in which it is actually (or should be) a part of aikido.

Judging a persons spirit? Spiritual approaches to aikido? Essoteric elements? Mystical Connotations? Teaching heart to heart?

That is why I have quoted these in my reply. These are all references to the same things, which are according to the major public opinion on the aikido forum that seem to be putting aikido in a bad light, then it is quite easy for those same individuals to also offer up similar explinations using terms like spirit, and heart to heart teachings, and so on, based on your own understanding of the training process that include elements of these very spiritual aspects of aikido.

So, from a hypocritical view point, is it the general consensus that these approaches do indeed cause harm to aikido, and if so, then why are they a part of the logic and explinations used in an attempt to refute what is is I am saying? Why is it part now of many of the posters own logic, beliefs and system of principles, as offered up in the many explinations here and on other aikido threads (as I have quoted above)?

Which is it going to be?

Training with a strong positive spirit? So then the spirit and this approach to training are indeed a part of aikido, and not mystical mumbo jumbo and such, is that right?

 

There is no pretence.

You have misunderstood the use of the word "spirit". It's not spirit as in spirituality. It's tenacity. The strength of conviction. Which is different from what you seemed to have been talking about before.

As I said above. You've misunderstood the use of the word spirit.

It's the nature of the English language to use the same word for many different meanings. The meaning is derived from the context.

 

Heya Aikiwolfie,

Keep on rocking...lol.

FYI: I don't think izumizu misunderstands the use of the word "spirit" really, IMHO, I think he is just trying to see the bigger picture.

Heya izumizu,

The way I see it, it is kind of the blame game. For so many aikidoka, the spiritual side of martial arts was stressed, but the fighting spirit, the tenacity, strength of conviction that Aikiwolfie mentioned was neglected. So you see, too much focus on spirituality was blamed for leading to the neglect of developing a superior attitude/fighting spirit.

On the other hand, if we lived in a world where every Aikidoka focused on strong fighting spirit, and nothing more, there would come a point where Aikidoka might find their lives are out of balance and then it would be blamed that there was NOT enough spirituality.

As far as I know, koyo just strongly suggests that the path should start with the development of strong fighting spirit through sincere and hard training. Then having developed through a hard life and training, a person could find they are out of balance, and then the aspect of spirituality, compassion, inner peace would come naturally.

True Budo comes in the aftermath of budo. Something like pressing through the hurricane to find the peacefulness in the eye of the storm. IMHO.

 

I would disagree. Izumizu was clearly trying to link what I and others had said with his concept of spiritual Aikido.

Teach the basics. Train hard and honest. It doesn't need to be any more complicated.

 

Martial art consists of 3 areas:

1. 외공 WoiKong 外功 Outside Merit (External)
2. 내공 NaeKong 內功 Inside Merit (Internal)
3. 신공 SinKong 神功 Spirit Merit (Mental)

Hmm, my bad. There I go thinking.

 

Nothing wrong with thinking. Why are you separating internal and mental.

 

Guys , to clarify my meaning. It's counter productive to think too much while training on the mat. It's far better to be put under pressure by the uke, being forced to rely on basic principles. Off the mat we can contemplate Aikido as much as we like. All my posts are aimed at the methods we use while training.
Gerry

 

I am not separating... Outside Merit (External), Inside Merit (Internal), Spirit Merit (Mental) is how classical martial art has been categorized since at least circa 5th century. I am simply the messenger.

 

Actually, I was not trying to link anything except the fact that when I throw around concepts and ideas that may or may not have a spiritual conotation to them, it is the general consensus that these concepts are what give aikido a bad name. (on this thread and many others in this forum)

And then within the next posts, others freely throw around spiritual concepts, as if their approach also does not give aikido a bad name.

As far as using the thing in the English language to mean the same thing when trying to communicate things about things presents a thing that things were not meant to be used for things and therfore the thing is thing to be a thing...right? I don't mean to sound rude or disrespectful, but that just doesn't make sense to me, using the same word for many different meanings. I don't know, maybe I tend to have too logical an approach.

In anycase, none of my questions were answered, which indicates to me that what I tend to say here is taken as a personal assault against the members on this thread, against aikido in general, causing them to lash out in defense of...I'm not sure exactly what (that which gives aikido a bad name, that which koyo has stated previously, that which somehow does not fit into ones definition of aikido).

Far from it. It is not my nature to attack or assault anyone, verbally or otherwise. I am merely presenting some concepts that I feel are an important part of aikido. I can understand that some, due to their training, may not agree with these concepts, and that is fine.

However, this should not be a problem. If your aikido is sound, you should have no need to defend it, no need to worry about what others think about aikido. You cannot control what other dojo do, or what other dojo folks may wind up practicing in.

But to say that these ideas are what give aikido a bad name, and then to freely use concepts talking about spirit, and spiritual training that are relating to (not the same as) these ideas implys that it is okay for some to present these concepts, but not others.

As far as fighting spirit goes, it cannot be denied, however, that is a very simplistic approach to the spiritual training of martial art. Spiritual training goes beyond that.

Also, in my posts above, I think you will see that before we arrived at a discussion on spiritual training and that which gives aikido a bad name, the concepts I was introducing were actually technical in nature.

Based on this, I do think it is possible for all of us to find some sort of common ground, and continue to have a free and open discussion regarding all aspects of martial art training.

body mind spirit

tenacity I would lump into the category of body.
conviction (strength of conviction) I would lump into the category of mind
fighting spirit of course I would lump into the category of spirit

Hard training I would lump into the category of practicing several days a week, 10+ hours a week minimum, for a period of several years (8-10 at least). Perhaps if you are lucky enough to practice at a dojo open 6 - 7 days a week and you max out year after year at 14 or so hours a week (thats just two hours a day), then maybe 7-8 years.

And on top of that, there should be some hard training on your own as well, what ever course that may be...I like suburi with my suburito in seiza...takes about 20 minutes to do 1000, and doing forward / backward rolls, aiki taiso, shiko walking in my living room. But it does not have to be aikido related, this additional training could be any kind of complementary exercise/stretching/crosstraining.

mind body spirit

Hopefully we will get to discuss all three, with plenty of input from all.

 

So why then did I entitle this thread the way I did? Well, for me, and I'm in no way implying that I am a master of aikido, technique is not the goal of training. This is at my current stage of training. Forcing a techniqe is not IMHO aikido. Implying my own will and desires over another that is potentially trying to injur or kill me is not aikido.

At my initial stages of aikido there was a need to understand the names, and the movements of the techniques, that goes without saying, and repetitive practice continues to this day...it has to.

I'm just saying that once things in aikido really start to come together there are much more finite aspects of mind body spirit approach to MA training and aikdio that will serve ones aikido to the 10000th degree. And like the approach to training in the beginning one is focusing on basics. In their progression one then tends to focus on these, what I consider to be more advanced concepts. Eventually, when the first stages become innate, or second nature, and one starts looking at the underlying qualities of aikido, these eventually become innate as well. I am still at the focusing on aspects of these stages, and introducing them here so that others may come to understand them as well, if so desired. I don't think though that it is possible to magically jump from one stage without going through the other stages first.

It's kind of like when I first started I had to kind of concentrate on where to put my hands, where to put my feet...eventually I did not have to focus on those aspects any longer. Then it became an aspect of having the names and movements sink in, then it became an aspect of relentless practice, then it became an aspect of understanding how all the techniques fit together, and so on...one never leaves the first stages, they are just innate now...kind of like walking becomes innate. Then eventually the next stages that one focuses on also become innate (I'm still waiting for that to happen, but I can through my own training, understand this process and already understand some of its benifits...in reality I can't wait for this stage to be one where I am not focusing on these varying aspects as well).

Hope this helps.

 

Well perhaps I've misread your post. But that's the way it seemed to me.

 

Ah good, it didn't come down to the peacemaker.

.45 cal Colt single action that is. :evil: