Hi, I've been lurking about this site for a while now, as I quite fancy returning to some form of MA training, after a 10yr break! (trained a few yrs in TAGB TKD in my early 20's) My main goal is to get fit and shed a few pounds, but I hate gym's, plus I like the challenge and sense of achievement MA's provide. Aikido may be what I'm looking for, as I'm not particularly competitive, and I quite like the goal of self defense without harming your attacker (I appreciate this is a long term goal). If Aikido techniques are designed to be used without physical power (by that I mean training to not rely on muscle power so as to be effective as you age) then do you get a good workout, seeing as ultimately you are trying to not use your muscle? I hope that question makes sense.
Well you got it right. As far as I know, aikido is the least demanding in terms of physical fitness. You do get a relatively good workout since you move about (and on occasion get thrown about) but don't expect to be ripped with just aikido.
It depends what you want from a workout. I used to do Muay Thai before Aikido and I must say that now, my muscles aren't as strong as they used to be. Obviously we don't (or at least try ) not to use our muscles. Concerning cardiovascular workout, it depends on your teacher, training partners and you. All schools differ. Some teachers really push you hard, others are more relaxed. I've had nights when I've hardly broken a sweat, and I've had others where I felt like I was going to be sick! Your best bet is to try it out and see how you get on. Bare in mind that the better you get, the more you have to work (usually as Uke) so the fitter you'll get. Having said all that, if it's strictly a workout that's more interesting than the Gym, I'd recommend a competitive martial art like Boxing, Muay Thai or Judo, as more often than not, you have more opportunity to go all out and push yourself. I would also add that despite a reputation for being soft, Aikido is frequently exhausting. As I said, try it and see what you think.
Tomiki/Shodokan Aikido does offer quite a lot of fitness training through randori practice. At our club we try to offer a structured class that offers both kata training and randori training to suit all levels and ages. When younger I used to train at a dojo that practiced randori for the last hour of a two & half hour session. I practised like this for years and was as fit as a butchers dog and held my own in international competition. Kata practise can also improve fitness, Aikido kata such as the koryu dai yon keep you moving at a fair pace making the heart pump hard. Aikido comes in all flavours so there should be something to suit all. When looking for a club make sure the instructor has a tracible history.
Thanks Guys, I'm not into getting super fit, just getting my backside of the couch and getting a bit more energy in my life, although losing my beer belly would be nice I live in Ayrshire on the West Coast of Scotland, any club recomendations would be appreciated, although after a good googling I think I've found 1 or 2 possibilities. David
depends... Yeah all schools differ, depends on the sensei. My own aikido sessions are 2 hour long at three times a week. You can loose weight/keep fit if you do aikido often enough and with enough hours- and living healthy in general. For example: The ukemi (rolls) are a fantastic workout and one of my favourite training parts, and being Uke (the attacker) in aikido is always a really good workout. The intensity of randoori ("sparring"), and the Jo and Bokken training are also great to get the sweat rolling. I noticed in my kickboxing classes that I always outlast my sparring-partners at the same level when it comes to endurance and keeping focused when tired - even though I am a heavier/fatter person. Since I started Aikido training long before kickboxing I think I can attribute this to my aikido.
Most British people above sandan seem to think the beer belly is compulsory... and maybe the weight down there helps keep the focus on the tanden! You won't get fit doing aiki. You might lose a few pounds with a school that does a lot of randori, but not if you go drinking immediately afterwards as many have the custom of doing! Keep up the water intake before, during and after class with lots of little sips and this should help you system regulate itself. Then if you do have a beer after class it should get out of your system quicker too. Be careful if you are overweight when you first start aiki. It can put a lot of stress on the knees. Make sure you straighten your back leg in kamae and don't do that daft turning the front foot out that so many schools do. Pay attention to the basic stances and be careful to keep the knee over the toes when you do tai sabaki to prevent excessive twisting strain. With regards to strength, of course in most aiki you're not supposed to use too much... but of course, the stronger you are, as long as you're relaxed, the better your martial art is, and the eaiser it becomes to relax! If some 10st weakling is trying to move an 18st thug he's much more likely to try and muscle through it than someone of say the same height and 12 healthy st who knows how their body works and how to relax. Lift weights/do cardio and eat well: then you'll get a bit fitter and whatever MA you chose will benefit. Just my opinion of course.
Do you mean the twisting of the foot about 50 degrees when in kamae like in this picture? Could you elaborate on why you think it's daft?
Hitoemi Apart form the older origins of hitoemi seen in Daito Ryu, the extension of the leading foot in this way has the natural anatomical effect of pushing the hips in the direction of the toes of the rear foot thus, if you were standing in migi-hanmi your hips will move more naturally toward hadira as you step through that direction. Regards
10st (140lbs) is generally a very healthy weight to be for most people. They won't be built like the Hulk but they'll be strong enough to sumon up some strength should the need arise. How much a person weighs depends on alot of things. Not just their muscle mass. An individual who is 10st (140lbs), knows how their body works, knows how to relax and understands how to implement the lessons taught to him/her appropriately can easily deal with an individual of 18st (252lbs) who doesn't know how their body works, doesn't know how to relax. The point is one person has been taught to deal with the situation. The other person hasn't. In Aikido terms it is more important to be supple (flexible). During training you will be rolling around all over the place and you'll be throw all over as well. You will not get a perfect landing every time. So it's important to be bendy. Added to that, alot of techniques require several joints to be twisted in one way or another or put under pressure in some manner. Flexible joints will stand up to this punishment far better than inflexable ones. So again it is important to be bendy. Or supple. It's also my experience that physicaly stronger students are the ones who tend to fall back on strength more. Relativley weaker students seem to accept more readily that there is a better way than just falling back on physical strength all the time. I would say this is because through trial and error time and again their physical weakness is demonstraighted to them, so they start looking for an alternative. And their are alternatives. Raw physical strength can be very easily neutralised. All that doesn't mean more strength won't ever give you an advantage or you can't do weights. It just means strength isn't the priority. And if you train properly you can have the benefits of both worlds.
I don't know what you base that statement on. Are you saying that 10 st is the average healthy weight of a human being? I was using 10 st as a completely arbitrary example. Of course if you are 4'6" and 10 st it may not be healthy whether it's muscle or fat. You are completely missing my point I think. And if by mass you mean bulk, I didn't mention that at all. I suggested weight training, not bulk training. By which I mean strength training. Again, a pointless generalisation. Don't get me wrong, I've known very strong 10 st people and very weak 20 st people, but your weight bears no relation whatsoever on your knowing how your body works! And you are bandying this 'relax' around like it is a) easy and b) relaxing! In the daito ryu based koryu kakutougi (aikijutsu) I practised for admittedly a short time, my teacher used to say in daito ryu they say relax the muscles you don't need but so you can issue power you need to develop a state of your muscles being 'hatteiru' or literally 'pulled tight'. If you like this is dynamic relaxation. I've heard aikido sensei describe the energy issuance from your arm as being like water going out through a hose; my aikijutsu teacher said more like mercury under high pressure. The nature of relaxation in aikido is more complicated than just saying that if you relax you can easily deal with people who are nearly twice your weight I think! Also, I've seen bar brawlers kick seven bells out of people, and they weren't relaxing at all! I've met a lot of very talented martial artists from many martial arts, and I don't think I've often met someone at 10 st who 'can easily deal with an individual of 18st' trained, untrained, fat or muscular (apart from the point that many people of 18 st seem to be stronger than average possibly because they are used to moving bulk). You say more important, I say it's another factor. I don't think you can concretely say that one is more important than the other. Sure in practise I've found being extremely supple very advantageous, but in street fights I sure wished I could put more bpdyweight behind my atemi etc! But again, apart from that you are misinterpreting what I'm saying: you are suggesting that there is some dichotomy between suppleness and strength. Look at gymnasts; with a sensible warming-down routine of stretching after weight-training there's no reason for you to lose suppleness. Or is that just your assumption? I was always getting told to relax my shoulders... it was only after several years that my sensei looked at me and realised that I have very square shoulders that always look tense! This statement about weaker students may be true. That doesn't mean that the adverse is true about stronger students. And this... ... is probably nonsense (with respect!) and a non-sequitur from your 'weaker students' chat. Good, we agree on this then. I didn't say it was a priority either, just another (important) factor if you want to use aikido (or any martial art) for self-defence. The only fact there is in the uncertain science of strength-training in relation to aikido (at least I would go out on a limb and say this is a fact) is that if you are used to lifting heavy weights when you have to move somebody who is heavy it will be easier for you to relax.
Sorry Aikiwolfie, I just reread this and can understand how you thought I was saying that mass is good. I wasn't. Although it was meant as an example, I was in fact speaking as someone who used to be a slightly underweight and very supple 10 st, and now after a lot of protein and more strength training I am a very healthy, stronger and supple 12 st and my ability to relax under pressure has increased a lot. I still think this holds: I forgot to mention stretch in your warming-down period. I would have liked to have hoped that people always do this!
is this true? i am thinking about starting aikido but i already have problems with my knees, so i was looking for something that does not particularly stress the knees (judo is ehough for them). i thought aikido is rather light on the knees as you dont have to lift people etc.
Aikido can be hard on the knees if you are practicing suwari waza techniques, wich are techniques done from a seated position on your knees. There isn't a lot of strain on the knees otherwise except maybe from falling and getting up, but nothing you shouldn't be able to handle. There is some form of lifting in the koshi nage techniques, but not nearly as much as you might find in judo.
I don't agree. I think suwari waza is difficult for most people because of a lack of flexibility in the hips and thigh muscles. If you keep your thigh muscles fit (ie strong and flexible) suwariwaza shouldn't put much extra strain on your knees. The falling and getting up is a lot for an overweight person's knees to handle. This advice is dangerous. Plus, the biggest problem with aikido with relation to the knees (and judo too for that matter) is the torque put on the knees with twisting movements. This is espacially so if you are taught hitoemi as a position to turn in as opposed to being for tsugi ashi, as it locks up your knee even more prior to the turn. Again, I don't see the lifting to be as much of a problem as the constant getting up and down, and the twisting. It's the same problem in judo. To Sony: I have heard that judo is worse on the knees, but that's just anecdotal from one sempai of mine who used to practice both.
