Aikido And Weapons Principles

Discussion in 'Aikido' started by Polar Bear, Mar 21, 2007.

  1. piratebrido

    piratebrido internet tough guy

    Kusushi - could you provide a description? I just know it as unbalancing, but it seems to entail much more.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2007
  2. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Hi piratebrido

    Kuzushi is the art of unbalancing an attacker.For an attack to be potent the attacker must maintain the verical and horizontal axis of his kamae. If you imagine a straight line between his feet and draw a line perpendicular to it creating an equilateral triangle the third point is the kuzushi.

    It may be attacked in two ways. Strike the attacker into a kuzushi. Or place your body into the kuzushi and strike from there.

    In the photo against the knife the knife hand is being directed to the rear kuzushi. More than one kuzushi may be employed at the same time. The tegatana (sword hand) is cutting at his head unbalancing backwards while the cut on his arm is unbalancing him to the side.Backwards to the side is the most effective use of kuzushi since is effects his axis vertical and horizontal.

    At an advanced level dominating his fighting spirit is also a use of kuzushi in that you weaken his fighting spirit.

    It should be realised that the attacker shall only be off balance for a moment therefor the technique must be applied instantly.We attack a kuzushi to take control to pin or throw the attacker and all throws or pins and strikes are directed to a kuzushi on completion of the technique.

    Hope this is of value to you.

    regards koyo
     

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  3. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Second use of kuzushi. As the attacker strikes move into his kuzushi and strike. This is the principle of enten jizai attack and defnce as one. Attacked on my left side I have entered to the front kuzushi of the attacker and executed a technique. If you imagine a straight line between his feet you can see that I am standing in his front kuzushi.

    regards koyo

    Sorry about the size of the photo!!! Still haven't got the hang of posting them.
     

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  4. Archibald

    Archibald A little koala

    *Looks at brilliant drawings*

    Your favourite movie is Seven Samurai isn't it? :love:

    These are excellent posts Koyo......I'm learning more and more by reading them, particularly on the subject of kamae.

    Having been studying the sword in Tsutsumi Hozan ryu for only 3 and a half years I am just starting to grasp the basic principles of swordsmanship - Jodan no Kamae in particular I never truly felt comfortable with until training yesterday when I realised - as you said - you can not be thinking of defence while adopting this attitude. You can not be on the back foot, you have to think only of cutting your opponent - even if it means recieving a cut yourself. While engaging in some light keiko with my partner I adopted this attitude and when he cut at my Do I moved my left leg back, changing my maai, and cut him neatly on his kote as his arms passed. His bokuto skimmed my jacked.

    This is the first time I have ever made Jodan work for me, and your posts are much to thank.

    So thankyou :)
     
  5. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Hi Archibald
    Tsutsumi Hozan Ryu? Would your teacher be Kiekai Tsutsumi? If so my cogratulations on your choice of instructor I have always found his posts to be most informative.

    Seven samurai? How did you guess?

    On kamae. I have trained with many martial artists who have fine kamae the most effective being those who understand the relationship of kokoro kamae and katachi kamae. Filling yourself with the intention to cut frees the mind from negative thoughts and allows decisive action.The cut to the kote as you described it should be seen as asserting control. Assuming yodan "draws" the attack. He is NOT free to make it himself. If he hesitates even for an instant when you "offer" the opening then you must cut decisively (debana) while he is undecided follow this up with another technique perhaps stuke (thrust) to the throat (carefully) so as to assert control. Asserting control and maintaining it is most important.


    I would be interested in your thoughts or application of the principle "fence the opponent even when unarmed.

    I am pleased you have found some value in our posts.
    Please give my regards to Keikai (if he is your instuctor)

    regards koyo
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2007
  6. Big Will

    Big Will NinpƓ Ikkan

    Excellent post about Jodan no Kamae! The attitude you described, about committing to cut the opponent, was really thought-awakening in me.

    And what you said about Seigan was equally interesting. :D
     
  7. Archibald

    Archibald A little koala

    Nay Koyo, Keikai isn't my instructor - in fact, I have never trained with him - although I agree, his posts are very informative :)

    Keikai trained under the late Jan de Jong, and he know teaches at his own school. I train at Jan de Jong's school, now run by sensei Maggie de Jong (his daughter) and Sensei Paul Connolly.


    Does that make sense? Keikai can probably explain it better :love:

    My thoughts on "fencing" an opponent when unarmed always go back to the 3 basic Kamae - Seigan, Jodan and Gedan. To me 'fencing' an opponent means using a strategy that neutralises your opponents and allows you to gain the dominant position.

    For example, when your opponent uses strong fast attacks that are full of intent, neautralise them with circular body movements and 'soft' blocks - creating gaps for your opponent to fall into as his attacks - his 'cuts' - do not find their target. By 'leading' him around with your body movements, you assert control.

    At the other end of the spectrum, when your opponent shows weakness or falters, hammer him with strong, effective attacks - allowing him no time to regain his rythym and breaking his spirit. Musashi called this 'to hold down a pillow'. Stop your opponents cut at the syllable 'cu-'. Stop your opponents jump at the syllable 'ju-'

    This to me is asserting control, whether armed or unarmed. Forcing him to play your game, and refusing to play his.

    I hope that wasn't too incoherent for you. These are my thoughts pulled straight out of my head as they are. As I said earlier, I've only got 3 and a half years behind me and so I am still trying to understand all of this myself. However I find that writing it all down helps, as do your posts :)

    Best regards - jon
     
  8. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    I answered pirates question on kuzushi in post 142. However to be able to unbalance the attacker we must be capable of seeing,creating suki (openings or weaknesses) in him.
    Attack at ALL times show a more powerfull fighting spirit and dominate the fighting spirit of the opponent. This is how I was taught and it has become rare in some aikido.

    When an attacker approaches a novice may "see" the threat and let his mind become uncertain or afraid. One who has trained properly shall see the openings in the attacker and at times be able to "read" his spirit. SHOW A SUPERIOR FIGHTING SPIRIT.

    It is most difficult to attack an experienced martial artist without leaving openings. Many "attackers" wish to strike but do not wish to be struck. This effects their spirit.
    Free from this concern we can attack 100%

    My early training involved attacking with all my power against shihan or sempai. People far in advance of me. There was no thought of competition. Fighting someone near or of the same level. This did not demand the same spirit that "attacking even when there is no hope" did. The "competition" was always with my own limitations.

    We were never to fight unless there was no other possibility but we MUST train as though we are training for that one time we may be fighting for our lives.Of course we did enter into competition (without telling our shihan) and the concensus of opinion was that we "took it too seriously and fought like lunatics".

    That was many years ago . Today I encourage the students of the makotokai to cross train anywhere they feel they can learn and they do appear at sessions bruised a bit. (muy tai plays havoc with the thighs).Bottom line ALL training is for the spirit. I feel that is more important than technique. Of course the technique must be pragmatic and effective.

    Sorry I have been rambling a bit but I feel that I should sate my approach and beliefs so that we can correspond openly.


    regards koyo
     
  9. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    WAKI KAMAE and AI UCHI

    In the photo it can be seen that I have deliberately left my centreline undefended.I would NEVER do this from a close maai. I cannot hold chudan kamae with my handblade extended for fear of a cut to the tendons in my forearm.
    This creates AI UCHI this being the circumstance that if we both strike , both shall receive a blow. I must have a powerful fighting spirit at this moment and find the courage to remain under the threat of the knife.
    This is the same as the use of waki kamae in swordsmanship (p135) as I "seamingly" offer no overt threat to the opponent.

    As he strikes I shall enter to the side triangularly ,to use archibald's "terminology" I shall move on the thru- of his thrust :) and execute an ara waza (severe technique) tenchi nage against the attacker rather than concentrating solely on the knife.
    In taijutsu, just as in swordsmanship, we flow from one kamae to the other without pause.


    regards koyo
     

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    Last edited: Apr 16, 2007
  10. Polar Bear

    Polar Bear Moved on

    Hi Koyo,
    While practicing suburi should you do triangular entry with every cut or should you just focus on the cut.

    The Bear.
     
  11. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Hi Bear
    The most important element in suburi is to execute each one using ki ken tai ichi. Since we train in weapons to empower our taijutsu we always use san kaku ho (triangular posture) with each cut. If we are using irrimi (entry) then the triangle sharpens to hito emi.
    Below ki ken tai ichi the instant before irrimi.

    regards koyo
     

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  12. tedi-kuma

    tedi-kuma Valued Member

    Hi Koyo

    Can I just clarify, that on the first ken suburi should we enter triangularily or stay linear while practising solo?

    Is this the case for all the suburi??

    Regards

    Teddy Bear
     
  13. dentoiwamaryu

    dentoiwamaryu Valued Member

    you should be in hanmi or triangular for all saburi cuts/strikes ,so 1st saburi you start of with ken kamae in hanmi, as you raise the ken above your head you stay exactley in that posture with no change in hip movement , so if you stop at the raise you should still be in perfect hanmi, as you strike down you come staright back to the starting postion, except the ken is now completley parallel to the ground and your navel. this is the same when moving forward in 4th and 5th. in 2nd, 3rd you move back first ino a hitoemi stance where the belly,hips and shoulders are turned completey side on, then as you step forward to strike you come back to hanmi. in 6th and 7th you start the exact same way as 2nd and step forward into hanmi, when applying the tsuki in 6th and 7th you should shift the back foot,hip and shoulder into a hitoemi stance to be in a safe postion for thrusting.
    here is a couple of clips of Saito sensei showing the ken

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxH7YmvMXEw"]YouTube[/ame]


    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lMlJ3t7IoI"]YouTube[/ame]
    its more at the end of this clip

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jklQEKsMr0E"]YouTube[/ame]
    and at the start here

    Hope these show a bit of light for you, of course this is just the aikiken way in Iwama, other weapons systems will differ.
    Koyo cn usually discribe better
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2007
  14. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    koyo can usually describe better?. So here goes.
    Watch the clips and do it like Saito shihan :D


    regards koyo
     

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    Last edited: Apr 16, 2007
  15. dentoiwamaryu

    dentoiwamaryu Valued Member

    Ye mate thats the words i was looking for. lol cheers koyo.
     
  16. tedi-kuma

    tedi-kuma Valued Member

    Thanks Dento, great clips!

    Can anyone explain wht we don't go off line when doing ken suburi solo. It seems to be universally trained in a linear fashion. ie straight on the centre line?

    Regards

    Teddy Bear
     
  17. dentoiwamaryu

    dentoiwamaryu Valued Member

    You can study your saburi by moving of the line to attack or avoid. Sesnei said with saburi your really just studying self awase and your own body connection to the ken/jo. there is nothing wrong with practising stepping of line in saburi, you do it on go-no awase anyway, the attack is simply 5th saburi stepping to each side of your partner. But most of the time use saburi as a study of yourself, and stay on line, ther is enough to think about in saburi most of the time, but ye sometimes study of line too.
    gambatte ne
     
  18. tedi-kuma

    tedi-kuma Valued Member

    Thanks Dento,

    It was one of these questions I kept meaning to ask and never got round to it. I have tried it moving off line but generally, I practise it on line with the mindset of improving my connection with the bokken and my body timing and posture.

    Regards

    Teddy Bear
     
  19. koyo

    koyo Passed away, but always remembered. RIP.

    Hi Dento

    When I was taught the kumi tachi Saito shihan always finished with a cut to the head then drew the kisaki down the face of the attacker and forced him to step back.Today it is done with a cut "through" the sword and the control is in chudan. I imagine this is for safety reasons. Am I correct in this assumption?.

    regards koyo
     
  20. dentoiwamaryu

    dentoiwamaryu Valued Member

    what i meant to say was that there is a level above saburi that is used for practicing saburi offline. its basically a collection of saburi partner practices, or awase keiko.
    So in basic saburi we practice on line studying self awase, then we move up to the next level of awase where each saburi is tested for good hanmi, awase and kokyu. Although in the first saburi excericeyou stay online and cut/strike straight through your partners attack/hanmi. but all the other 6 envolve really applying the saburi which means offline alot
     

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