Ive been told that the difference between these styles is that in the first to have to roll with the throw in the second the technique ends in a break. We sometimes cove aikido techniques in jj - but i could never make them work until it was pointed out to me that the uke has to throw himself/herself...? I am an aikido ignoramus.... can somebody explain why people hurl themselves into throws.
Its not exactly hurling themselves into throws. Aikido is useful when a person overcommits to a strike or a grab. Thefore Aikido is useful against morons do have no basic fighting skills. Aikido isn't useful against any kickboxing, locking, grappling, or western boxing type arts.
You have very little knowledge of Aikido. Aikido is efficient against any type of attact but at the difference of Thai Boxing its techniques require a very long time to master. At 80 years old O Sensei could still easily defend against any opponent. Have you often heard of a 80 year old guy doing Thai Boxing and easily competing against youngsters ?
Bit of a sweeping generalization there that it's not effective against any of those arts. It depends on how you make it work for you as an individual. Some of the guys I've trained with are pretty damn scary. The uke doesn't have to hurl himself around, but generally that is preferable to a broken wrist/elbow/etc. The techniques themselve are sound, the nice looking flip at the end is simply to escape the pressure on the joint. There are some throws more akin to judo where the reason for falling is nothing to do with a joint, instead you have actually been projected/lifted into the air by tori taking your centre of balance at speed.
My exprience with Aikido comes from this summer, where I have had 3rd dan telling me the same thing. However, a few weeks ago after class I told him was I thought of aikido so far and that I was not impressed. After a discussion he said well "Attack me and I'll show you" I asked ask him do you want to boxing or grappled or both. We said what-ever. So after a double leg takedown and top mount I got off and rolled away. He stood back up and said that he was about to counter well I rolled away. So I came at him again with quick jabs and low kicks. Again he couldn't pull off at aikido technique. After this I will stick to Ninpo and BJJ. I'll add Aikido to the arts I have tried and considered worthless for survival martial arts My list so far Karate,Shaolin Kung Fu,Tae Kwon Do, Aikido
Ok, I`ll tel you my experience with a Ninpo guy. (This is a true story) A couple of years ago one Ninpo guy ( i am a jeet kune do practitionner) was telling me Ninpo is damn good. Then, we spar, I hit him so badly, his mates thought he had been in a car accident. He couldn`t properly defend himself. Do I conclude that Ninpo is useless ? Hell no ! Just because the Aiki instructor was unable to demonstrate you the efficiency of the Aiki tecnhiques doesn`t mean it is no good.
BJJ sucks. I know because I wrestled a guy and "killed" him with my rubber tanto before he got me in an armbar and "broke" my elbow, at which point I picked up the knife in my other hand and stabbed him with it again. Therefore, BJJ conclusively sucks as a martial art. There is no possible redemption. I will add it to my list of worthless martial arts. And on another note, the difference between aiki-jujitsu and aiki-do is primarily a matter of intent. Technically, they are very similar. Aikido's founder softened the effect of the various moves by emphasizing circular rotations and de-emphasizing linear movements. As a consequence it is always possible in aikido -- and the goal always is -- to defend oneself without really hurting the attacker. Whether you can pull it off or not depends upon your individual skill at that moment in time. But isn't that true of every martial art? As for the falling, well, that's just the way other people do it I suppose. Not all aikijujitsu falls end in a break, and in aikido, it is certainly possible to break a joint before or during a pin.
I once fought a kempo guy and came out on top in the fight, so kempo sucks right? Wait a second........I take Kempo to!! (but seriously their school is horrible, just trying to make a point)
shaking my sad sorry head I thought us martial artists had moved away from such sweeping statements of a style after such limited exposure. To do so is not only a crime against the art it also reflects poorly on the exponent who said it. Of the arts you mention which are classified as 'useless in a real situation' did you also happen to takedown and show as utterly ineffective a comparable 3rd Dan in each of those styles? If so then perhaps you are merely graced with fantastic inherent ability and would make any style look inadequate? Good luck in your journey to debunk the myth that martial arts are in the majority useful for self-defence in a 'real' situation.
endurance i have noted that aikido guys tend to use rolls rather than breakfalls and seem to be back up right after they've been thrown down!!! As a result they can continue at speed doing 1 for 1's for ages. Off the top of my head I wonder can you use this rolling breakfall in a more judoey type throw eg o goshi?? (hope this isnt the wrong thread)
"The Art of Hitting People With Planets" No. There are two types of .. of ... well, of throws in aikido. One is called a throw, and one is called a projection. After a throw the uke (opponent, the guy who falls) lands more or less at your feet, like in judo. Aikido is related to judo so there is technical similarity. With few exceptions you cannot roll out of a properly executed throw because the trajectory of the fall is well nigh vertical. In contrast, after a properly executed projection the uke lands across the room. The trajectory of a projection is just a little less than horizontal, so it is easy to roll out of them, and actually uke is supposed to roll out of them. That's the idea. Projections are more common than throws in aikido because, as you said, the uke can get right back up without missing a beat and do so for hours. I am of the opinion that projections are the most powerful weapon in aikido, because in the "real world" if you don't roll nicely you will collide with Planet Earth in a very awkward way and break something, twist something, or get a really ugly road burn.
everybody is talking about fights that has nothing to do whit aikido aikido is the manifestation of love and harmonie just lissen to O'sensei ------------------------------------ treu victory=self vitory
I think you'll find that O'sensei added his own religious ideas to his style. Take these or leave them. At the core of the art is the ability to defend yourself from physical harm. That my friend is about fighting. As you progress in experience then the spiritual side will emerge but that is more to do with personal experience. Aikido and similar arts are effective either with or without the spiritual side. The true pacifist will be the one that at the moment of opportunity to kill his opponent will instead choose restraint or such like. This occurs in combat. Just my interpretation as I study aikijitsu and as a result the teachings of O'sensei do not really filter my art. I do like his interpretation however of my style
In my experience with Aikijutsu there is alot of emphasis on atemi waza. Second to that alot of the techniuqes are very similar with some modifactions to bring joint locks and such on quicker and more intensly. For example a Kote gaishi will be executed with the uke's hand in front of the tori while the circular motion that brings on the Kote wrist lock is very abriviated and small versus a large flowing circle. As some one above had mentioned the flipping breakfalls are used to escape the throw and prevent any kind of joint damage. If the uke doesnt flip or flips late injury can occur. If you are uke isnt flipping and not hurt your techniuqe needs work. This is okay, Aiki arts are very finite and require constant fine tuning and takes a long time to become competent making it very frustrating but once you have grasped the concept of taking and manipulating balace it is very rewarding.
aikido / aikijujitsu The main difference between these two arts is that Aikido is a subset of techniques derived from Daitoryu Aikijujitsu by Aikido founder, Morihei Usheba. Usheba was one of the sr. students of Takeda Sokku, from tha Aizu clan - who maintained the secret art of Daitoryu Aikijujitsu up until the mid 1700's. Usheba removed many of the lethal techniques (bone breaking, nerve attack, choking, pain-compliance) in order to create a martial art that was more practical after the fall of the Samurai, during the Meji restoration period of Japan (mid to late 1700s). (No samurai, no need to practice sword defence and disabling techniques.) Usheba combined training techniques of Aikijujitsu with the Omote religion to form Aikido - litterally meaning "The way of harmony". Aikijujitsu is a combative, battlefield martial art. This is why in Aikijujitsu after throwing someone you either break a bone, place a knee on their head, kidney or other vital spot and draw a weapon like a sword to kill. As opposed to throwing someone and watching how pretty they are when they execute a perfectly harmonious forward role. Clearly I am exagerating how gentle Aikido is - ultimately it is not about the art, it is about the martial artist and either form can be as aggressive or passive as the skilled practitioner wants it to be. more info at: http://www.cabbagetownaiki.com
1. Aikido is not just a derivative of DRAJ, there are several influences from classical weapons such as the sword and spear. 2. Aikido IS NOT religiously based. 3. The founder held several PERSONAL beliefs which were infused into HIS BUDO. Aikido can be deeply studied without either ideology or philosophy 4. AIKIDO IS NOT GENTLE. People choose to apply waza how they see fit, gentle / hard, compassionate or not. 4. The creation of "Aikido" was NOT as a result of "..the fall of the Samurai, during the Meji restoration period of Japan (mid to late 1700s)." M. Ueshiba first met Takeda Sokaku in 1915 at Hisada Inn in Engaru nearly 200 years AFTER the meiji restoration 5. The spelling of the founder of Aikido’s name is UESHIBA 6. The correct term is Aiki jujutsu not “jitsu” 7. Takeda’s name is spelt SOKAKU 8. "Takeda Sokku, from tha Aizu clan - who maintained the secret art of Daitoryu Aikijujitsu up until the mid 1700's." That's a load of rubbish... Takeda Sokaku was born on October 10, 1859 So it would have been impossible for him to have done what you suggest. 9. "Aikijujitsu is a combative, battlefield martial art" Really ? All Aikijujitsu ? The evidence seems to point to the fact that Daito-ryu was developed in the late Edo or early Meiji era (mid-late 1800s) and can't really be considered an armoured battlefield art in the same way that, for instance, Yagyu Shingan-ryu can be. 10. I'd suggest you do a serious amount of research before posting in a forum populated by people who know their art. All that aside,I dropped by the website you advertised in your last post and I'm left a bit confused. According to the website "Koryu Goshin Aikijujitsu... The martial art of the Samurai" Which art exactly is the "Samurai" supposed to have studied in your system ? It can't be the Chin na, Karate or Aikido so, it must be the Aikijujitsu. Could you tell me the name of the jujitsu ryu and who was the founder. Regards
Careful ranrewski, Dave knows everything! Along with your lineage, please provide him with your kindergarten teachers name and address as well. You have to remember, 20 years training = God. Dave, sorry I've been gone so long. I've been busy with work among other things.
