Aikido against modern attacks.

@rebel...
Where to begin...? I have trained other ma. I have competed, I competed for 4 years, though I will not disclose in what, I have disclosed here on MAP some of the Other styles in which I have trained. I do not believe I disclosed the style in which I trained and competed.

In the video around 4:30, where you mention the randori, yes, and as you can imagine there are a couple in the dojo of peace love and harmony that is aikido that would love to get a piece of me (can't please all, and in my defense have some great friends as well). Now picture that same situation in which the attackers have weapons. Pretty much negates any grabbing, for the most part, but that was also one of my test requirements... Yes, randori in which the attackers have weapons.

As far as other principles go...yes, some familiarity. In fact the one I told you to seek out in the Segal video is hardly limited to aikido. Yes many arts share principles, and overlap, and some with emphasis placed heavily on principles not as prevailent at times as in aikido, like you said... rock, paper, scissors.

I'm also aware that there will always be some one meaner, bigger, faster, stronger just around the corner, and that no ammount of training will ensure complete victory in every circumstance.

My position has not been to deny the principles and opportunities present in other combat systems. Even boxing can result in death, and I certainly don't wish to guage the effectiveness of a boxers punch by having it land on my face.

My position is that yes, advanced training in aikido does equip one with the skill and understanding of the principles involved to deal with such situations. Whether one attributes those to aikido, tai chi, yoga, egg Fu young, or boxing or anything else is a matter of personal choice.

My apologies if I said anything hurtful to you or to Giovani, as that was not my intention. I value everyones input here on MAP, even if it differs with what I believe. I understand that we are all real people with feelings good intentions sitting behind our keyboards and iPods in our corners of the world, and I respect those feelings.

Again my apologies if what I stated came across as hurtful, as that was not my intention to do so.

---
as a side note my aikido training has been specifically aikido. I did not compete while training any other ma, and the other styles I mention were all studied one at a time, aikido being the latest and last almost twnty years.

 

@Giovani
(from my previous post, since this is also directed to you)
My apologies if I said anything hurtful to you or to Giovani, as that was not my intention. I value everyones input here on MAP, even if it differs with what I believe. I understand that we are all real people with feelings good intentions sitting behind our keyboards and iPods in our corners of the world, and I respect those feelings.

Again my apologies if what I stated came across as hurtful, as that was not my intention to do so.

 

Troll

 

Izu, whatever the funky tobacco is that you put in your pipe to have a puff on, I do not want any of it.

 

The point is the art has a long rich history and did have a wide range of techniques.

There a still people who are trying to reconstruct these elements of the art.

Also I believe boxing is part of MCMAP, the combat system developed by the US Marine Corp, so you can see there it is being used for modern combative purposes.

Boxing also has very valid self defence applications.

So with all that in mind I can't see why anyone wouldn't consider it a martial art as the term is used generally.

Yes you could get really specific and narrow in your definition but in doing so you are going against the accepted definition, context and usage or the word and ruling out a whole host of other systems.

 

Suggesting that Boxing is not a martial art, is like suggesting that the sun doesn't shine or that cats don't like milk - complete baloney bunkum.

Izu, in all seriousness and candour, meant to be helpful; have you ever suffered from some sort of Psychiatric disorder?

The continued rambling nature of your posts, their irrational basis, the absence of credibility in everything you write about Aikido and other MA, and the on-going mystery-man stuff; simply do not add up to a picture of someone entirely at ease with oneself.

Clearly you are someone of some education and not just some pimpled teenager - who can be excused for writing such turgid rubbish. Therefore, I am drawn to the conclusion that you are not entirely of rational mind and body.

I have encountered a few folk (fortunately not too many) in Aikido and TaiChiChuan who have exhibited some strange behavioural qualities. Assessing this over internet is not so simple.

As far as I know there is not a Psychiatric condition that can easily be labelled with bizarre beliefs born out of MA and in particular Aikido and TaiChiChuan, or more generally MA and internet forum obsessions. I suspect its tied up with beliefs in the supernatural, religious doctrine and so on.

However, that would be the subject of yet another diversionary thread.

 

In the case of aikido, it's called "Ueshiba Hero Worship" and or "Japanophilia"

The people I've met, both on media such as this and in real life who display these traits, are people who are so caught up in their own mystical make-believe worlds, based on romantic notions of bushido, bullet dodging, ki blasts, no touch throws and clairvoyance, nothing and nobody will ever convince them of anything based on common sense or actual fact. Unfortunately, I doubt, having the taste slapped out of their mouths wouldn't achieve much in gaining a foot hold on reality either.

These people are the foundations on which cults are established.

 

I think the phrase "doesn't know what he doesn't know" is rather applicable.

 

Maybe we can setup some kind of reality orientation and re-conditioning therapy business.

I think this condition is actually worse in CMA than JMA.

In China there was an instance of a Qi Gong devoutee standing in front of a train to stop it with his Qi. Little wonder the Chinese Government has until recently (now they see commercial gain) taken a very dim view of internal CMA like TaiChiChuan, Baguazhang, Xing Yi Quan and associated physical conditioning like QiGong and Neigung.

In the west, we are guilty of corruption in these matters, but certainly in China and I imagine as well in Japan.

 

I'd rather watch paint dry.

 

Probably the paint will dry quicker.

 

You know.. I've just realised..

You're the wushurichard equivalent in aikido

 

The wushurichard accolade is indeed an honour of elite enlightened and advanced Trolldom, only achievable through exhaustive perseverance.

 

What is the big secret about what martial arts you have competed in. There is competition and competition. I have competed at club level in Judo pretty standard stuff. In Aikido I have also competed at international level a vast difference between the two levels.

As a westerner I am happy to train in the physical side of Aikido as I am not Japanese. In modern Japan many martial arts are university based with very few uchi dechi programmes around. Most of the Japanese I have met over the years either practice at workers clubs or university based clubs and practice much the same way as many of us on this forum.

Japan is one of the worlds economic leaders with people have to earn a living to survive. Look at many of the programmes that the various hombu offer many of these are populated by non Japanese nationals who have either financed by saving for a stay in Japan or working in Japan to support their studied.


Whilst I respect everyones views on Aikido and fully understand that Aikido is a broad church with various approaches to climbing the mountain. I can't respect people who can't support what is written with facts. From my point of view many of us on this forum practice different systems of Aikido, like or loath our Aikido, information on most contributors to this forum can be accessed.

Shaun Hoddy

 

Ok, sunshine, pony up your club and I'll come and see for myself.

The Bear.

 

There are walts in the military and then there are walts in the budo world.

You Izu, are a walt.

Walt = Walter Mitty.

 

Awesome, thanks for bringing me up to speed on boxing, Dean. I find it fascinating that some clubs/ boxers are bringing these elements back into boxing. I'm sure it will make for some great matches.

I think the same is being done to aikido as well...bringing in more elements ad hoc to make it more realistic, more practical somehow as evidenced by the topic of this thread.

 

Now since just about everyone is done launching personal attacks against me, shall we jump back onto the topic of this thread?

I for one would appreciate instead of taking personal issue with me, and name calling and spewing forth insults, you instead debate or question what it is I say...

Have any of you done randori with weapons in a modern style?

Does aikido have a defensive weapons component to it?

Do you feel that through diligint study and hard learning through the pores type training one might be able to learn principles and develop the sort of skill o sensei or the shihan might have?

Can this be done in a modern context?

 

Yes. I've had my students and I conduct various sparring exercises with and without weapons, 3 on 1, 4 on 2, 2 on 1, 2 on 2. Just training knives and sticks, not with long blades such as swords.

If you train Aikido with a defensive weapons component then it has one.

That's how they got to where they did plus a whole lot more.

Sincere and hard training is the minimum to get there. This type of training cleanses the body, mind, spirit.

Can the level of skill surpass that of O-Sensei... that depends. I bet there are those that surpassed O-Sensei's skill with the sword, but as a total package, it is hard to say. Not everyone, no matter how hard they train has the capability to reach to the top. If they everyone did, then for example, anyone could get a gold medal in the Olympics, but we know not everyone can do that.

One thing that goes with this is the quality of those you train with. If you are surrounded by a diverse group who are experienced and skilled, this will increase your learning ability and raise the quality bar. In the older days, many came from Judo and Kendo and Karate into Aikido... this means that you had all of this in those you trained with. In more modern times, you don't get this type of experience coming into many dojos, therefore you have to go out an get it... cross-train, etc. Many that stay only in their own comfort zone these days do so because they falsely believe that what they train in is the same as what was trained fifty years ago... they believe that they have much higher skill than they actually do because they only test this skill with people that think and do as they do... when if they went out cross-training they would realize they really are a lot less skilled than they believed.

When you train, you have to learn to become comfortable in an uncomfortable situation. Therefore the training must put people out of their comfort zone.

So in a modern sense, you have to encourage people to cross-train... in the old days it was a GIVEN that people cross-trained because they were right there training with you from other arts.

Yes, even in smarter ways today. But it can be more difficult because for many decades, the martial arts had been becoming watered down... therefore, not only can things be done in smarter ways today (due to technology and more available information) but in addition, those in the modern arts have to be re-introduced to less watered down martial arts. IMO.

 

Evasion of a walt about to get found out.

The Bear.