Aikido against modern attacks.

Hi all,

We've been making Aikido Videos that cover more classic attacks and grabs as well as videos that cover aikido defenses against more modern attacks such as hay makers, roundhouse kicks, jab etc.

I've seen many people post in Martial Art Planet if aikido could work against contemporary attacks, as well as in "real fights". Take a look at some of our youtube videos that cover those topics.

One example being the classic 1 2 combination.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zLatvvYg5I"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zLatvvYg5I[/ame]

 

What is uke's background in boxing?

Those attacks looked shoddy to my eyes.

I think if you are going to do something like Aikido against X attack you have to ensure said attack is delivered by someone who knows what they are doing.

 

Nice video.

Looks like the movements would work and done nicely, IMHO. I like that you first unbalance the attacker before you step through with the left foot. Stepping through before the attacker is properly unbalanced would leave you unnecessarily open to a counter.

From a boxing point of view, however, the attacker is not using good footwork or tucking in his chin. Good boxing footwork and tucking in the chin would make the technique in the video not as desirable as demonstrated.

(Edit: I wanted to expand on this better. So see my later post with more details)

 

There was an unrealistic degree of pre-emption too on the part of tori, imo.

 

adding to your point dean and to others'

http://www.aikiweb.com/training/ledyard3.html

 

Better than presented on MAP for a while.

Rebel and Dean's comments are valid. Note that these are instructional demos only - with a little bit too much chat - which takes some of the intensity away.

My suggestions FWIW:-
1: sharper jabs from uke with auto repositioning to bridge the gap for better follow-up e.g. snap low-kick - which can make omote entry angle more challenging and by necessity sharper and faster - maybe taking a hit every now and then - but getting to uke's weak point areas. If uke is really skilled kick-boxer, maybe tori adjusting kame, guard, maai and timing until an attack comes that can be entered with omote i.e. like a boxing/kickboxing bout - with some Aikido evasion and entry here and there.

In my mind this kind of training would be extra to core Aikido training - not replacing or changing it.

2: change format to chat as overlay ontop of action - not during. Action at different paces.

Getting a long the right lines though, as often yacked about here in the MAP dojo.

I did like the point about threading entry on inside. This is something I really wanted to take up with koyo i.e. angles and principles on the inside.

 

This might eventually lead to some folk developing and posting some 'Aikido vs Realistic attacks' rather than compliant uke attacks.

Some work involved.

 

That would be cool. The problem is that a TRULY realistic attack involves resistance, which can easily lead to injury. It is a real challenge to create the illusion of reality while keeping your partner safe!

 

The safety factor should be the fact that it is scripted.

So because of that you should be able to ramp up the intensity of both the attack and the response, just use an uke who has good ukemi.

No different to good hard kata.

 

Its a good thing to start training with strikes asap, and yes the uke needs to work on better attacks but only he can change that by learning, but its still better than not doing it. Best advice I would give on the defensive side there is you need to irmi deeper and more hip work. Too easy for him to strike with 2nd. But for a basic idea its good place to start

 

Heya Giovanni, do you know George? The one you are linking to.

 

As a non-aikidoka I am always fascinated by some of the similarities in how people do aikido and other arts. In the example provided by the OP I have a simple question.

When the sensei is stepping off the line to avoid the jab he appears to be moving sideways as opposed to forward on say a 45 degree angle which would be more the way we would approach the defense. In moving to the side he leaves space for uke to move (if the person truly was using boxing footwork) and makes the technique he, tori, is performing slower to apply than it might be.

I hope this makes sense. From my point of view getting further in would help to avoid uke striking with a sideways technique (elbow/back fist or whatever).

As I have no real knowledge of aikido could you tell me if some practitioners might perform the technique similar to what I have described?

FWIW

powchoy

 

no i don't. i've read several of his articles though. and i know of him because i was at an asu school for a bit. why do you ask?

 

the video

Dear Dean ,
I completely agree with you.The attacks were pretty poor.The defence against the punch?was also pretty bad. The instructor did a very poor direct entry.Somewhat like tenchi nage. This would not have stopped a committed attack.[the two oncoming forces would have neutralised each other] .Apart from that Tori entered into the open side of Uke. Far better either open the body [ushiro tenkan] and apply atemi to Tori [[left hand punch [Uke]-right hand atemi[kesa giri]Tori.Simple execution.If a throw was required , Tori makes a deep entry [irimi ] on blind side, controls Uke [neck area ] and executes classic Irimi nage/Rear Choke.If Tori does decide to move to ukes inside Tori must eliminate the possibility of a second attack by Uke.Again Atemi comes in handy here.
Cheers, Joe

 

Dear, oh dear, oh dear.

The Bear.

 

He was my instructor's instructor.

I live in the same city and back in the early to mid-1990s I trained a few times at his dojo, Aikido Eastside, for seminars. George Sensei was the one that wanted to show me Ikkyo off of a block one time, back in the 1990s. He struck at my face and was surprised when I parried and slipped the strike like a boxer. He thought all karate guys used age uke (rising block) against that attack. He was going to show me how to apply Ikkyo off of a rising block. Well I learned something and he learned something that day.

I'd like to think I helped him learn that karate guys can move like boxers... but he probably figured that out on his own...lol.

 

In short..

If you want to really understand how to make aikido work against someone who can Box.. go to a Boxing gym.

If you want to learn how to make aikido work against someone who does Karate.. go to a Karate dojo

Yada yada yada...

The only way you'll figure this out correctly, is not only understand the different types of "attack" but more importantly the strategy(s) employed in each of the arts or fighting systems you wish to learn from and how they play their game.

Dave

 

Dave is right on this one, If you are going to defeat someone from another system you have to understand something about that system. One of the key points is move them out of their comfort zone by changing the distance they fight at. As I practice judo as well as Aikido, I would not want to be drawn into the distance that judo fight at. The reverse would be true for boxing keep tight so that the punches are closed down and lack power

I find if funny that throught my time in Aikido, Aikidoka seem to have an obsession on how effective Aikido is against other systems. The problem with most style of Aikido is that Aikidoka are not subjected to a sparring situation like Judo and boxing and may lack the spirit that comes with competitive training and the skill of changing a technique if it fails.

 

One of the reasons ive went back into Karate (KYOKYUSHIN), But i still think its better there doing that than not, even though there shody attacks and tori has a lot to work on too with distance and hitoemi.

 

I've mentioned before here that for a number of years, I had a Kyokushinkai yudansha cross train at my dojo.

I got smacked in the teeth a number of occasions until I figured out how to adjust my timing according to his 'game' once I'd done this, it became possible to control ma ai (to a degree) thus regain some consistency in technique.

What I found very apparent was that I got a lot of success with ura waza and less so with omote.