I would have to totaly dissagree with this. Boxing is more than just throwing punches. Most aikidoka would probably have as much trouble trying to box as a boxer would have trying to learn Aikido. Aikido as a martial art is incredibley diverse. How an aikidoka counters an attack can vary a great deal. The fact that you can only move in eight general directions isn't a limitation of Aikido it's self. It's a limitation of reality which the boxer is also restritcted by. Strickly following Aikido principles you should not be in a sparring match and if you are, tapping out is not an option. The imobalisation ends when the aikidoka decides it's safe or the aikidoka foregoes the imobalisation and finishes the sparring match with one move taking out the oponent. Granted that sounds idealistic, but that is the objective. You're not supposed to get bogged down going toe-to-toe with anybody. Uke gets to tap out in the Dojo because if they didn't we'd soon run out of ukes to practice with. Most boxers worth their salt are actually either brave enough or daft enough to step up to any fight. Boxers put their lives on the line every time they step into the ring. I think most boxers would find this statement very insulting.
i'd gladly spar a boxer, or whomever. aikiwolfe, i don't know what your purpose was in picking my post apart line by line. maybe you had a bad day at work? whatever the reason, i absolutely disagree with your entire post, tone and content. are you really so dense to think that an aikidoka who keeps in shape and trains on a heavy bag 2 or 3 times a week can't do a little boxing? well, i beg to differ because my hand skills are at least as good as my aikido. conversely, a boxer does some tenkans and tries to use aikido in a sparring situation. which is better for the training partner? have you ever used aikido in randori or in real life? after your initial "get out of the way" move you get someone on the ground as quickly as possible. there is NOT a lot of variation in this, inevitably you use roughly the same movement time and time again. simplicity is beautiful. you pretty much missed the whole point of #3. i highly recommend this: http://www.rhlschool.com/reading.htm. i don't doubt the toughness of boxers nor their willingness to fight. they should just be aware of the different injury possibilities that aikido presents. and a successful irimi has a good chance to injure someone's knee if they aren't prepared, my knee still hurts 2 years later. [edit] hedgehogey = squad (don't tell anybody)
I remember that when I was growing up, my pet boxer, Rocky (I know, a cliched name), was so well-trained that we could do full-on aikido demos where he'd do perfect ukemi out of any kind of projection.
I think I've trained with him - you had to watch Sumio toshi though... the arc of drool was quite something when the sun caught it
I picked your post apart section by section not line by line. I did this purely because it was easier to deal with that way. I'm not the only person here that does this and it's not th first time I've done it so I don't understand why you'd be offended by that style of reply. It's a fairly normal practice in the forum when responding to lengthy posts. No I'm not dense. As someone who has trained in boxing in the past and someone who is currently training in Aikido I think I have a good idea of the differences and similarities. I don't care how often you train with a heavy bag, in a boxers boots you'd be a shadow of a well trained boxer. Boxing involves a range of movements alien to Aikido and training with a bag doesn't prepair you for this. Yes. I have used Aikido in the real world. In a fight too! How much variety you manage to find in Aikido depends really on your ability to understand and apply the lessons Aikido teaches. Not every immobalisation requires a take down. It's also possible to combine your evasive action and imobalisation action into one move. Simplicity might be beautiful, however variety is harder to counter. I missed the point of number 3? So what was the point? A boxer won't fight you because you might break his wrist? Sorry but you're dreaming. If you weren't doubting a boxers toughness and willingness to fight then why bother posing the question? Apart from the risk of death, boxers routinely run the risk of breaking wrists and knuckles, twisting knees, cutting eyes, bursting lips, loseing teeth, breaking noses and more. A boxer going up against an aikidoka faces no more risk of being injured than a boxer going up against a boxer.
you pretty much failed to address any of my points and continue to hammer away at inconsequential details. i'm done on this thread.
Hmm ok. Well since you're finished on this thread there's probably little point in this reply. However instead of taking the huff wouldn't it be more constructive to explain more clearly what you're point was?
boxers spend hours and hours and hours and hours refining technique, building muscle memory, building speed. The average boxer will put in more training in a week than the average Aikidoka, so will be faster, more instinctive probably better, same goes with any MA. However, assuming they both train for the same number of hours,and equally as hard i can't see why an aikidoka wouldn't match the speed of a boxer, or for that matter be any better in very close range up to clinch. IMO both are great arts, with different philosophies, boxers however do seem to train harder and longer than aikidoka, so average aikidoka can't match average boxer (average being the mean/most medium)
If you could get a boxer into the dojo to train with you that would help. I train with a kickboxer who is a bit of a brawler and he totally understands the idea of Yokomen from taijutsu to bukiwaza, and how it will help deal with this situation. You must practice with the attitude that your yokokmen is there to take your head off or break the jaw. One very big problem boxers have if you can get past there fists or you can take a punch, is they usually dont know how to protect there legs, so quite easy to smash the knee joint. or think about yokomen,irimi kinonagere.
This has been a cool thread, let me hop in! There is no "inside of a boxer's range", particularly for hooks. Also, one of the most common routines in training, one me and the group did every single day when I was training, is strap on some heavy gloves, step REAL close to the heavy bag, and throw tight body punches for anywhere from 30 to 60 second intervals, non-stop. It's mainly for conditioning, but I think that most folks can see how it might be applied. I'm a big fan of style vs. style sparring. Not MMA per se, but it sure deepens (for lack of a better term) the... uh, spirit -- the juicy pulp, if you will -- of each art being applied. I don't know how to put this eloquently, but the weird variations cause a person to actually fuse with and think about their style, and does nothing but good. Kind of like how having to defend your personal beliefs tends to strengthen them? I give up. Anyway, aikidoka are not boxers. Except for the ones that are boxers. Another brilliant statement. At any rate, there's a WHOLE 'nother side of boxing than what goes on in the ring. Seems like most people aren't expecting boxers to do some -very- boxer-ish(?) things, like stomping on your instep, throwing the odd elbow at close range, low blows, etc. I have a lot of respect for aikido, but I'll agree that the average boxer has an age on the average aikidoka on the grounds of grit and hard learning. All training, as was stated. How many aikidoka have been punched in the face? Knocked out? Aikido has a deep wealth of technique, admittedly deeper than boxing (although not by half as much as most people would think), but I'm doubtful of their ability to maintain perfect composure, which seems to be a necessity to the art, under heavy fire. The art doesn't appear to draw many 'hard' people, simply because of how it's perceived by the herd. An aikidoka with "street experience" and grit, on the other hand...
That intrigued me too?! Laughed and agreed with the reply btw, what about leg defences as aikiscotman mentioned? The other thing is, apart from a couple of take downs by holding the ankle and pushing the knee at an angle to get the attacker down, I don't know of any Aikido leg attacks?? - please enlighten me, preferably in english!
Combine "fellatio" and "fallacious". And yeah, leg defense tends to be a boxer's biggest weakness in a mixed setting. If I were an aikidoka, I would distract the guy by making him -think- about defending his legs. But that's just commonsensical I think, make a guy jumpy and take him out of his element. A boxer wants an aikidoka, or anyone with the capability to use their own strikes against them, confused. In an ideal situation, I'd have you walking into every punch, with as many false leads as possible. But that's my personal way; I know a couple guys who'd just charge in as quickly as possible and try to punch you into oblivion. My understanding of aikido isn't so great, but what I would recommend is something along the vein of what aikiscotsman said. Deflect the punch and go for the legs, because a boxer's punches are tied to his feet. Push him, do whatever, just keep him uprooted. Aikido seems so passive to me (in a good way), that I would play that card. Most boxers have no experience against a yielding opponent, and if you can force him to commit, your job is that much easier. And one thing's 99.9% certain: if your hands are down, he's going for your face. Maybe leaving a false opening is somewhere in line for the cannier folks.
