Cool stuff. I've been meaning to find a good book on the chain of events that transpired around then, with all the politics and treachery and heresy burnings!
He could have been forgiven too. I agree, forgiveness seems to have been utterly forgotten. It looks like someone chose some choice verses from the old testement and decided to say that's what the whole bible was like without actually reading it all. The point of all those rules in the old testement was to show how we couldn't possibly measure up to God's holiness, which shows just how merciful He is in coming to live with us and coming to save us.
It's just to confuse you Actually, it's because it makes sense to me. Logical sense, beleive it or not. And I'm a pretty logical person.
apparently not but becasue your new here i'll use the same laymens statment i always have and not branch into a philosophical discussion. Invisible man living in the sky, your language alone betrays that you have been infected to the highest degree. "coming to live with us, save us" very creepy wake up. i dont see this turning into a very productive conversation because ive had it with the religious group on map 100 times, its just my job to point out what you are to everyone else.
See, it's much more than that. LOGICALLY, why is it impossible, or even unlikely, that there is something out there much more powerful and with much more understanding than us? Personally I think its because people don't want to accept that there is another being out there better than they are. And thats just asking why it's so illogical that there's someone/something out there that we can't understand. And I was in a hurry when I typed that. He came down to earth and restricted himself to a human form to save us from ourselves. Then he died and carried the weight of all our sins on his shoulders, if that makes you feel any better. If not, it must be what I said, not the grammatical errors However, I don't want to get into a debate over the internet so let's just be buddies and agree to disagree, k?
he did the spiritual equivelant of changing his pants. good job. the point is, none of this is valid. but whatever, i've had too many deep religious debates
I would answer your question but you seem to have givin an answer already. Now while I don't hold it against you for believing, I find it hard to believe that you know why I don't believe. You seem to have pinned an ego tag to unbelief. Why? You have completely over simplified. "My reason" is in your post, but it has nothing to do with an ego, I'll even highlight it for you.... (If it doesn't make sense to someone, then I see no reason to suggest they are merely being unreasonable.) Why?
What makes that so illogical? I didn't mean that everyone who doesn't beleive has an ego... or that those that do beleive don't have an ego, for that matter, those that beleive are no different or better than those that don't (I thought I'd make that clear, there are alot of idiots out there that think they're better because they beleive...)... I just think that it's frightening to human beings that there's something we can't understand, so we want to mask it out. We want to pretend it's not there. And really what I'd like to ask is why you think atheism is so logical. To me it honestly seems pretty illogical, and if it's evolution you beleive in, it seems to me like nothing but a fairy tale for grownups (which I'm sure is what God looks like to you). because He's perfect and just that loving and merciful. It's just simply because He loves us so much, not because of anything we've done, but just because He does. I really can't comprehend that kind of love, I don't think anyone can. If it were me I would have let the world burn after everything they did, but like I said, for some reason He's just that loving. ...that was a wee bit repetitive...
The issue of the atheism and theism is a complex one so I'll start simple by summarising it. Atheism is non-theism. So it looks at theism and says 'I don't believe that.' You can split this in to two types: Weak Atheism - Thinks the theist might be right, the same way that I might win the lottery ten times in a row next week or there might be a million unvisible unicorns running around on mars. But so long as there's no reason to believe such possibilities are actual, we shouldn't believe. Strong Atheism - Thinks that the theist is definately wrong and that there definately isn't a God. Some argue for this by claiming that theism doesn't make sense and/or is self-contradictory or meaningless waffle. Other theistic claims might be self-coherent but contradict other things we know like scientific facts. I'm an atheist of the strong type. I am yet to come across a theistic position that makes sense, let alone is likely to be true. Show us your case and perhaps you'll be the first!
I'd say believing in God is actually alot more reassuring to most people than not believing in God. The very thought of no-one running the universe leads many theists to conclude they would become morally bankrupt people who saw no purpose to their existence. Just ask aikimac... Also evolution is as much a fairytale as gravity... go read some popular science books rather than creationist mumbo-jumbo and you'll see what I'm talking about. Or if that is too much a better option than trying to bring your faith into conflict with mountains of evidence perhaps its better to find a position whereby your faith does not depend on evolution being wrong. So loving and merciful that he made a place just so all those who don't believe in him or bow down and worship him can suffer for ALL ETERNITY. Geez what a loving guy.
How would it be a logical rational belief on my part if it made no sense to me? I think that's just a matter of them thinking atheist are immoral. It's probably less to do with them being idiots as it is more likely they feel we have no limits or understanding where right/wrong behavior is concerned. They would be wrong, but I think I can understand how they came to that line of thought... I don't find it to be a frightening concept. Just false. I also find this to be how most atheist view the subject, false, no fear involved. From what I see, it looks to be the other way around. I think CKava hit the nail on the head there... (This is kind of like saying we do believe, we are just pretending not to.) I stand corrected, it's not "like saying", you are saying we're pretending. That's a pretty strong assumption. What makes you think this? Again, from what I see, it looks to be the other way around. Depends, why do I find it to be logical? Simple..... I don't "believe" so therefore the logical possition is atheism. Nothing I have seen thus far speaks to the concept of there being a God. With that in mind, what would you say would be my logical conclusion? I don't believe there is a God, therefore I should be a christian? I'm not saying theism is illogical, I just think it is flawed logic. How could I not? I'm atheist.... Just so you know, you are going to have a hell of a time pinning me to any one theory. I may not be sure as to the details, but "I" believe we came from a natural process, not a supernatural process. But by all means, feel free to prove otherwise..... (Wouldn't it be a kick in the pants if there was a God and evolution was his tool of choice? ) You misunderstand what I'm wanting to know..... Why did he have to jump through all the hoops? It's God, I mean, he spoke us into existence yet he can't just fix the problem without appealing to our humanistic nature? If there was a problem with his design, maybe he should have just fixed the mistake....
Why does it have to make sense? I missed the part on why there has to be someone, somewhere, who fully understands something for that something to be true.
thats half the point as it also fails to numerous philosophical and physical laws, if it breaks those, it clearly, doesnt make sense.
Who says that philosophy answers all questions? I wasn't taught that one. Usually God is defined as something outside the constraints of our physical laws, so that objection doesn't bother me.
Well, if we are talking about something then we have to understand what we are talking about. If we believe in something then we have to understand what we believe in. Otherwise it's just unintelligible nonsense, surely! Don't get me wrong, I don't think we have to understand everything perfectly - sometimes a concept makes a kind of sense even if it's hard to pinpoint how. However, if under analysis a concept is shown to make no sense at all then it proves that it was meaningless after all.
Then the question is where that dividing line is, between "kind of makes sense" and "no sense at all." I'm cool with that.
Is it really reassuting that people are going to have to own up to all the sins they've done on earth? In my opinion, it's more reassuring to be able to do whatever you want with no consequences unless you get caught and then when you're dead, you just rot in the ground, with still no consequences for what you do. What evidence? show me something credible and I might start to beleive you. I've read some of those books and it's utter crap. I'm sorry, but it is. There's more evidence backing up creationism than evolutionism, despite what some people say. He's not ONLY loving a merciful. He's also just. He has both justice and grace, and that's the just side. I don't fully understand that, but I don't have to understand it all. I see enough evidence without fully understanding every single tiny detail.
You got eternal bliss in paradise to look forward to. v.s. One shot, then nothing. I think it's dishonest to set and say that the former is not more reassuring. Are you kidding? We can't just do whatever we want. But your right. Rotting in the ground, knowing that someday you will just be gone, knowing you will never be able to see a loved one again, knowing your loved ones will someday be gone as if they were never here.... That is definitely the more pleasant of the two outcomes.... Why speak on behalf of something you can't justify?
