A talk about what works. Please participate.

This thread is in the SD forum, I wouldnt say all streetfights start out as SD.

 

One thing a lot of people seem to underestimate is the surroundings this supposed attack is taking place.Lets be realistic about this, if you are on the top deck of a bus and it kicks off you arent going to want to try and take them down or do a nice spinning kick,even throws are ruled out.
Its great to have lots of space to play around in but its not always like that.You have to learn to use your environment to your advantage,walls for example make great weapons and they are everywhere.

Think outside of the box if you want to be able to fight in one.

At the club i train at we get put in senarios where your back is against the wall and its multiple attackers who may even be armed.Its hard to deal with but it is possible if you do it enough.My red to yellow belt involved 3 man attack one with a knife.The first person grabbed and punched me then the other did from the other side then the third stabbed me.I got stabbed everytime as i dealt with the other two.
Eventually after being made to keep doing it i changed my approach and dealt with it.Fast effective striking worked but the bruises on my body from the wooden knife reminded me just how fast it is with knives involved.You wont be rolling around on the floor with any more than one attacker if you can avoid it.

Recently in west croydon there was a stabbing in the afternoon at a bus station, 3 lads were fighting and one was using his belt as a weapon.Halfway through the fight he decided the belt wasnt working and just pulled a knife and stabbed this lad multiple times.The victim didnt even know he was being stabbed and had about 10 wounds, one to the neck.He just collapsed in a pool of blood but due to my colleagues quick thinking they put something over the neck wound and stemmed some of the bleeding.He survived as a hospital is just down the road and an ambulance was there in minutes.

That attack was over in SECONDS.

Its because of real life encounters like this i train my jujitsu with full intent,if i have to get pyhsical i will do whatever it takes to stop the attack,brutally if need be.The law will come into it after, IF i survive.

One of the guys i train with has been stabbed in the face during a fight,he didnt even see it coming or even feel it.It was only when he felt all light headed he backed off and the other guy left it.He used to love a toe to toe but thats changed now.Now he will be brutal too as he knows first hand the reality of how it can turn out,hes no idiot either and very skilled but got caught out "sparring" instead of getting it over and done with.

Personally i feel your martial art should be effective first and an art second as it originally was developed for self defence purposes, the art came second.

 

I usually get the same response from seasoned martial artists. Such as we come to realise that martial arts, per its in-class physical methods cannot stand alone in the area if Self-Protection/Defense

Usually novices or "fresh black belters" tend to equate class study with actual Protection-Defense without going forth to really or truly study upon other aspects witihin the subject

 

I have asked this question in so many ways since i got here "does this work in a real fight" , "does that work in a real fight" I have received answers ranging from

Anything can work if you train it enough
only Punches and hand techniques
Punches and wrestling work
Palms knees and elbows work
Dirty tricks work
Dirty tricks dont work

The one thing I have learned is that the one thing that they all agree on is what works best which is "Avoidance and descalation." If you can master this 9 times out of 10 you will be fine.

What I have learned is to not harbour "martial fantasies". Just because you want kicks, knees or whatever to work in a real fight , doesnt mean they will. there are no magic bullets that can stop any attacker (not even real bullets can do that). If you love to do fancy stuff that you think is cool join a martial art and do them in the training hall. Or get a human shaped dummy and do them on that. But in a real life violent altercation, dont try to work something in, do what you can to avoid it, then do the simplest , easiest most hard hitting thing you can if you have to , so you live to get back to the training hall.

 

Somewhat agree. But I am confused;

there are no magic bullets that can stop any attacker (not even real bullets can do that).

 

This actually brings up a good point that I wanted to talk about. What are people's views on high kicks? I always subscribed to the Wing Chun/Ishin-Ryu theory that they were impractical but at the same time I had a front kick to the face that I have used in a real fight and it ended it right away. I was also surprised to see that they are still used in MMA.

Is it the threat of the groin being open that is why high kicks are frowned upon?

I was surprised to see you had knees in there, I have never had a problem making them work.

 

I was listening to an interview with Chuck Norris during a Bruce Lee documentary once and he talked about having the conversation with him about the time period of five years or so where they trained together. He said that Bruce emphasized the Wing Chun "rule" of no kicks above the waist for practicality and balance and Norris countered by saying "Well wait, wouldn't you like to be able to kick at any angle?" and this lead to Chuck teaching him Tang Soo Do high kicks that you see Bruce using in movies that are by no means Wing Chun. Jun Fan/JKD does have high kicks. But I remember reading in the Tao that Bruce still said to be careful about them.

 

Kicks above the waist take a huge amount of training to be usable. To the new comer or the untrained, they should absolutely be ovoided. Also, you need to be weary of the ground your on when you use them. If your grip isn't great on the ground, there's a very good chance a high kick will end up with you on the ground.

 

You know what you are so right with what you say.

Link to bataris box

Once you understand this simple concept it gets a whole lot easier.Being able to remain calm when faced with an aggressive individual takes a lot of skill and practice but it does work most of the time.Add into the mix things like how you position yourself and if you have interview stance/guard etc in a casual way all affect the outcome.
Ive lost count of how many people ive subdued verbally and by using my stance,posture and body language to control them on a subconscious level.
Remaining calm is key, even though inside your head you may be running through a load of senarios that may happen at any time.

Learning to become aware of how you could be coming across to them (bataris box again) and showing empathy if need be can defuse a lot of situations.
Take a look at nlp and hypnosis and see how they build rapport first before going for an induction.All skills any martial artist can aquire and use daily.

 

I was at an Occupy event once and I helped de-escalate a fight between a veteran who was obviously not mentally stable and an activist kid who said something that he did not appreciate. We gently separated them but none of the activists really knew how to talk to him. He kind of collapsed to his knees overwhelmed with the situation so I sat down next to him and spoke to him softly and said "Hey man... I understand. You swore an oath to uphold the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic..."

When I said that I could see it was my key to getting into his zone of thinking. He looked at me and it was clear he related to me or at least felt that I understood him. He started to calm down right away. I said to him "I understand you don't like what he said man, but that same Constitution gives him the right to say it right? Didn't you say you were here to protect people?"

At this point his aggression totally dissolved and I was able to get the two of them talking and they eventually hugged. It was so powerful because I was able to help disintegrate the aggression without even touching him. He was really messed up from the war and felt that his only contribution would be to protect the activists if the cops came to remove the campers. After this incident he joined the camp and calmed down.

An important part of talking someone down in this fashion is to make it clear you understand that they are upset and why. In many cases these people have so much repressed emotion and nobody listens. So sometimes all it takes is listening.

 

High kicks..;

http://blog.iainabernethy.com/?p=4

 

I've brought a few of my friends from other martial arts to my cottage up north on the Canadian shield. The forest is dense and there's no soil, just decomposed needles. One time I brought my buddy who does taekwondo. So we're walking thought the forest and I say, "High kick me." He says, "What are you nuts?" so a little later we're walking on one of the island and I say, "High kick me." He says, "Now way." So later we're walking down the loose gravel road and I say, "High kick me." He says, "No way man?" So I say "Well shucks, I can still pull off all of my hand techniques fine but high kicking isn't so safe outside the confines of the dojo or the rather stable surfaces of the city eh?"

 

I dunno about anyone else but by the end of that post I was hoping your mate booted you upside the listener.

 

If he's a rational, reasonable human being I'd expect him to give the same response if you asked him out of the blue to punch you.

I mean really, what kind of weirdo asks a friend to try and hit them midway through a pleasant woodland walk? There's some counselling needed there.

 

If my friend asked me out of the blue to high kick them I'd say the same thing. It has nothing to do with being unable, but rather I don't want to kick my friend in the head.

 

I should introduce you to some of my friends - it'd be a tempting request.

 

I'll say it again- if you know you can consistently boot resisting opponents in the head (from, you know, doing so) then removing it from your repertoire is silly.
There's a reason head kicks are a staple of every full contact venue which permits them. If they land clean they consistently score knockouts and if the opponent covers it's effective artillery to keep him from advancing freely and is more than capable of ending fights even when covered.
Add the fact that refraining from putting your hands down at your waist when someone kicks at you is a learned skill, very uncommon outside of fighters, and you've got a very heavy shot that you'll have to screw up pretty badly to miss.

The only reason it's more appropriate for organized fights than nonconsentual ones is that non-consentual fights often begin at close range or against a quickly advancing attacker, both of which can take effect out of the kick. But if you're at boxing range at any time for whatever reason it's a viable technique that has far more uses than just doing harm. Same for body kicks.