A self defense story

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by Morik, Aug 29, 2016.

  1. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    in my experience, i would say that if the gentleman was actually going to do you harm, then he's probably already prepared for whatever violence comes. by brandishing the weapon, you've tipped off the attacker to what you're holding, what hand, etc.

    at least in ero-sennin's anecdotes, he made sure to conceal the blade.

    also in my experience, predators are trying their best to not tip their prey off. and most likely, work in teams.

    yes, i disagree. aside from the fact that you haven't established any actual danger at all, except some perceived threat. but you escalated for no reason. in my opinion. there are mentally ill people out there. you brandishing a blade may make that person think you're the one that's a danger to him/her. next time that person sees you on campus, how do you think he will react?

    i'm glad you're safe. i just don't get the anecdote. i also wonder, and this is what i'm getting at in my previous comment about "you've figured it out"...you first ask for thoughts/comments, but when someone actually does have a thought, you put out a detailed decision tree of this and that. are you sure you're asking for feedback? or just looking for someone to tell you you're right?
  2. greg1075

    greg1075 Valued Member

    Maybe but you're just guessing. He didn't overreact. He made the best decision he could in the moment according based on his assessment of the situation. There's really no reason to make this a big deal worth debating over pages. It's not like he waited around a corner and jumped the guy. No one got injured. Like Ben said, awareness is a good thing OP displayed a healthy level of paranoia, planning for the worst and hoping for the best which is by a level of magnitude better than the opposite approach.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2016
  3. greg1075

    greg1075 Valued Member

    You're leaving out details about the guy speeding and slowing down and staying out of sight. There's being behind someone and being "behind" someone.
  4. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    everyone is just guessing. including the op.

    i find it interesting that this site is a discussion forum. yet people seem to be perturbed that i'm discussing it.

    pages and pages? have you been on the ninja forum lately?
  5. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    Exactly. Thanks for catching that. Giovanni won't talk about it, but those details would have been a very big deal for me, if I was the guy walking with my girlfriend -- or walking alone, or walking with anyone.
  6. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I have. But I'm so good at Ninjing no one noticed. :ninja1::ninja2::yeleyes:
  7. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    no. this is actually what i said.

    i still haven't heard a good explanation that there was any danger at all. here's the op...again.

    see the last line. for me, that's important. "not really sure". morik is walking, and i'm guessing looking forward some of the time? would you say that's correct morik? or were you walking backwards?

    also, the last line in the op.

    nothing in the anecdote indicates there was potential for any violence at all. and really, the person who escalated and made the situation potentially violent, was the person who pulled the blade out.
  8. aikiMac

    aikiMac aikido + boxing = very good Moderator Supporter

    See posts #19 & 29, which end with the following:

  9. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    maybe it's because i actually have been mugged. when it happened to me, i couldn't see the people. it caught me by surprise. and by the time i realized it, it was too late. maybe that's why some guy walking behind me, hanging back, doesn't really disturb me as much as the op, and clearly you.

    spiders have senses? <--that's a joke.
  10. greg1075

    greg1075 Valued Member

    This is a terrible way to look at things. By the time you have clearly established there is danger, you are in danger. You may feel the need to wait that long to take action but I think you’ll find most people would much rather take preemptive measures once they personally feel they have a reasonable doubt, be it running away or using a deterrent. Whether or not the person turned out to be a threat or not is irrelevant - no harm came to them. OP acted on his assessment of the situation, which not only was not a simple guess but also seems reasonable given the details he provided. The person - real threat or not, doesn’t matter - retreated without harm being done to either party. Mission accomplished. If OP had ambushed the guy and threatened him with his knife, it’d be a much different story but as is it doesn’t really warrant that much of a debate imo, though it will undoubtedly go on for a while I’m sure.
  11. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    yeah, i hear what you're saying greg. my concern is the escalation with the weapon. that's all. it's not taking steps to stay safe.

    we're not debating. we're discussing. :) i sit at my desk and write emails all day. don't confuse many posts with being angry. please.
  12. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    In terms of a continuum of force he is at a low level action, but high level consequences of engagement

    a "show of force" from a tactical perspective is equivalent to "officer presence" as a use of force: it is designed to dissuade further action that may require a physical response

    However, overt display of a tool also carries a suggestion of willingness to deploy - which in the cases of a lethal force tool means a commensurate response may be justified or that the encounter now has a higher initial engagement
  13. greg1075

    greg1075 Valued Member

    What it boils down to is was OP’s perception of a potential threat reasonable given the information available to him at the time?

    • Night time
    • Empty street
    • A man followed them
    • He kept staying out of sight and hid
    • He kept altering his pace to stay out of view

    That’s more than enough to answer yes to the question in my book.
  14. greg1075

    greg1075 Valued Member

    Me too :(
  15. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    That's a yes from me too. I'm not sure getting your knife out and all that is what I'd do but I think it's fair to consider him as "a bit dodgy".
  16. greg1075

    greg1075 Valued Member

    I do hear that part, but frankly I'm not quite sure what other step to take other than running away when there’s no open public pace nearby. Any deterring tool, including verbal, is going to carry that potential escalation factor.
  17. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    I have been taught to always trust my sense that something is amiss. My Sifu and various instructors stress trusting your "spidey-sense." And in various life situations, I have found that trusting my instincts has served me well and that I often regret it when I don't. Key to avoiding a potential situation is awareness and trusting your senses.

    OP took a high risk way of dealing with the threat. It worked in this situation. He took the risk - it worked.

    I think maybe calling the police talking loudly on a cell phone might have had the same purpose, but been lower risk? Or even faking a call to the police. My bosses have done the fake call when a person is not responding to being asked to leave my workplace. And it has been remarkably effective.

    If it was a mugger or something similar, don't they often look for easy targets?
  18. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Most assailants want victims not opponents
  19. aaradia

    aaradia Choy Li Fut and Yang Tai Chi Chuan Student Moderator Supporter

    Exactly. And that is why I respectfully disagree with Giovanni's statement (quoted below). I understand he was speaking from his experience, which I cannot and won't dispute, but overall I disagree with the accuracy of what he is saying.

    It could be true in some cases, but most of the time they want easy targets. Making yourself NOT an easy target, depending on circumstances, is my understanding of good self defense. Ideally, before it reaches an actual situation.

    Showing an awareness is one aspect towards that end.

    It is non- violent, but related. When I worked in a record/ video store decades ago, one of the best loss prevention/ theft deterrents was the simple greeting of all customers. Thieves don't like that you acknowledge them. Or if someone was acting suspiciously, we were supposed to go up to them and say "can I help you?"

    Not so much for customer service, but to make them aware that you were aware of them. They would often leave when you acknowledged them. To this day, when greeted in a similar fashion at a store, I wonder if this is the real purpose behind their supposed friendliness! :D

    Also, my current workplace - unfortunately has a high incidence of child molesters hanging out there. (If you didn't know this about Libraries, you SHOULD be aware of this.) We had one that hung out, he kept staring at kids, then looking away when you looked at him. It wasn't enough to kick him out. So I thought, two can play that game. Whenever he came in, he would sneak to the back isles. As he walked past, he would look at the front desk. I would stare at him very deliberately, then slowly look away. I looked away so that if he complained, I could say I was just looking around the library and deny his complaint. Just as he could with his behavior.

    He stopped coming around every day. He would come in, I would be summoned from the back room if I was there. make my awareness of him known, and he would leave. (My co-workers sadly, would not do this themselves.) He started coming in less and less often. And when he realized I was almost always there, he stopped coming there altogether.

    Criminals often don't like when others are aware of them, because they would prefer unaware victims.

  20. Morik

    Morik Well-Known Member Supporter MAP 2017 Gold Award

    I am glad I started this discussion, if for no other reason than getting the (obvious in hindsight) fake phone call to the cops idea. (Though I also enjoy discussions in general.)

    I think that would have been a better move that pulling the knife:
    - He was far enough away that if his (very unlikely, I'd think) reaction was "oh cops are on the way, better move up my schedule to rob/assault/kill this guy QUICK", I'd still have had time probably to grab the knife in my pocket and get it open before he reached me.
    - Aside from that unlikely scenario, my guess is anyone who would be deterred by a knife coming out would also likely be deterred by the threat of cops showing up. (And if not, I'd still have options.)

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