Hi, A couple of years back I took a trip to Shihan Matthew Holland's class with the intention of having a look and maybe joining as i was between aikido clubs at the time having just moved back to Glasgow. On entering the hall, I was swiftly told to leave by the sempai, and told that I couldn't watch until I had paid the insurance fee (about £20) Was this normal for this club or the Scottish Aikido Federation? If so could anyone who has trained with them enlighten me? I am now training for my Shodan in the Yoshinkan style, however, I only have one suitable uke at my current class, so would love to attend another aikido class in the Glasgow area to broaden my horizons and improve my general technique. The fact that this would mean donning a white belt again does not bother me in the least, i only have the humblest intentions to learn from a good teacher...any suggestions? One last question...is Billy Coyle as eccentric as I have heard? I have heard stories of endless seiza sessions and gradings based on this? Regards, and thanks for reading Craig
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha .... Oh am I going to enjoy this thread. Now let me think, is Bill eccentric....... hmmmmmmmm..... there is a question. The Bear. BTW Welcome to MAP.
ha ha awesome. eccentric or no Uncle Bill is the go see man up there for Aikido. I'm pretty sure all of MAP would agree!
A Glaswegian that doesn't drink now that is definitely eccentric. Honestly though Bill is a true gentleman and the people at Makotokai are some of the best Aikidoka I have met. If you are in Glasgow you have GOT to go train with him! I have heard some classic stories about him though, one he only trains shodans and above. His class is invitation only. Although truth be told the best stories are the one's that come of out his mouth. The Bear.
Eccentricity! Cheers Polar Bear, I will definitely look into doing that soon. Of course, the difficult bit about training with another club is the revelation of your previous knowledge without seeming arrogant. Thanks again Craig
Hi Craig, There are loads of cross-trainers who go to to Makotokai for additional training. The guys are all well used to dealing with different styles and ideas. As long as you are into sincerely training you will get on great. Cheers, The Bear.
All you will find at the Makotokai is aikido pure and simple no politics or personalities.And a friendly welcome. I have great respect for yoshinkan indeed all "martial" arts. regards koyo As for the endless seiza sessions.. more nonsense..life's too short to spend it on your knees.If you have any questions about our training I shall answer them here.
Makotokai Thanks koyo, much appreciated. Is training still at the RM barracks Mon and Thurs at 7.30? Craig
Those are the training times. Simply tell one of the soldiers at the reception and one of us shall come out to you. regards koyo
Great stuff, thanks. Viewing that reply alone makes aikidoka look hard! "one of the soldiers at reception" :woo: Cheers Craig
Tall Tails I don’t know who starts these stories but I can tell you from having trained with the man for almost 10 years that they are absolute crap. You will not find an instructor more dedicated to the art of Aikido. Myself and some of the guys from the club have visited many other dojo’s throughout the UK and are always being told these tall tails by the people there, it’s funny that I have never seen any of them at the club training. But don’t take my word for it come and see for yourself. "crap" is allowed. Masking profanity isn't. Please read the TOS. If you're in any doubt about what you're allowed to post apply the Simpsons rule. If Bart says it you can to. Unless I say you can't.
Just do not sign anything you may end up in Iraq Seriously though forget the rumours evryone is welcome at the makotokai and can be asured of good training no politics or personalities. Our emphasis is on the martial aspects of aikido as taught by the original shihan.practisioners of other martial arts who wish to cross train in aikido also welcome. regards koyo
A sincere thanks to all who have replied to my post. I had my suspicions that these tall tales were based on something other than the facts. It can be difficult to have loyalty to an instrutor and not get drawn in to the murky world of aikido politics, especially in this neck of the woods. My apologies if I have caused any offence. The best way is obviously to see for myself. See you all soon Craig
Hello Mr Jamieson, I have been following this thread with great interest. Matthew Holland and I took our shodan grading together in October 1978, at a course taught by Yamada Yoshimitsu Sensei (from New York) in Birmingham and organized by the late William Smith OBE and Gordon Jones. The course was a BAF course. Koyo goes way back beyond this time, to the time of the AGB (Aikikai of Great Britain) when aikido really started in the UK. My own experience of this time was training with Chiba Sensei in the AGB dojo in Airedale Avenue, Chiswick, which I did up until 1973. Since then aikido in the UK has become really fragmented, such that if you access the BAB website, you will find well over 30 organizations, some of which have really obscure links to Morihei Ueshiba. I have no idea about the fees charged by the Scottish Aikido Federation. Here in Japan we do not interfere too closely in local affairs. I know that aikido organizations in the UK join the BAB because of insurance issues, but I do not know whether the insurance rules of the BAB operate in Scotland (I have been away from the UK for a long time). Since Koyo trains inside a military base, the rules might be different. Here in Hiroshima, we occasionally have US marines training with us. There is a huge US Marine base down the coast at Iwakuni, but I have doubts about the quality of the aikido training there. My own dojo here is a general dojo located in a school. Regular students have to take out dojo insurance, but the dojo on the Marine base probably has different rules. One thing I should stress is that US marines are very good to train with. They go to places like Iraq and have a very close acquaintance with the issues that we discuss in forums such as this. Probably the UK marines are very similar, which is why Koyo's dojo would also be a very good place to train. However, do not neglect the insurance issues. Koyo might know of a certain AGB / BAF instructor in Newcastle who had to face a civil court case involving an injury allegedly suffered during aikido training. I am aware that the law in England does not recognize the validity of waivers signed on becoming a member of a martial arts dojo. I do not know whether the law in Scotland is the same, but this might explain Matthew Holland's reluctance to have you watch a training session. Best wishes,
Koyo goes way back beyond this time.....ouch!!!! Hi Pete the dojo is covered by insurance. The training is mostly civilians military training is for military only.Good bunch of guys almost all cross trainers from other arts (though we study only aikido). There is a sambo and MMA group on at the same time, another great bunch of guys.Soon we shall be off to a western sword seminar (you should check out the western and eastern sword comparison thread) I simply teach aikido and the students are free to remain in their own clubs no need to "join" the makotokai.Also they are encouraged to attend seminars and see as many instructors and arts that they can. Hope you are enjoying Japan. regards koyo
I don't want a good thread to turn into a discussion on the BAB. However I feel I should give some clarification on this point. While the BAB do have government recognition here in the UK as "a" central body for Aikido they are by no means "the" central body for Aikido. The line they spin that Aikido teachers can only buy insurance from them is total crap. Approach any insurer that covers sports and you can get insurance very easily. They even do special packages for clubs and teachers. The basics you need are personal and professional indemnity insurance and you'll be covered. Insurers are more than happy to accommodate Aikido and indeed all other martial arts. Surprisingly there are actually relatively few claims made for martial arts injuries in comparison to car insurance or home & contents insurance. It's easy money for the insurers. Why would they give that up? I got this information first hand from insurers when looking for quotes a while back and Sports Scotland also told me The Chinese Martial Arts Council For England (I think that was the name) is also a perfectly valid body here in to UK to regulate Aikido both north and south of the border.
Thank you Hirotaro, that may well explain his reluctance to allow me to watch part of his class. The funny (and sad) thing is that had you turned up from Japan and tracked him down to darkest Maryhill on a Monday night, presumably you wouldn't have been allowed to watch far less train, depending of course on the intracacies of your own insurance policy. In today's letigious society this is understandable, but madness nontheless. By the way, I am in no way trying to put anyone down in this thread, I'm merely looking to further my understanding of aikido. Cheers, and happy Friday! Craig
For your information. I realy have no idea where the ludicrous stories such as the need to be black belt before you are allowed to train in the makotokai started. So I shall state here and now everyone is welcome to train irrespective of grade , art or association. There is no political agenda simply training for whoever wishes to attend. I was fortunate enough to see aikido when it first came out of Japan (way back then) and attempt to stay true to the nature of the training at that time. I have no wish to change the art or create my own version of it. Train sincerely and you shall find your own aikido. The original shihan considered themselves budoka and mutual respect for all martial arts was common with no personalities or politics.Trainees need not commit to training only at the makotokai and are free to remain in their own club under their own instructors.We simply wish to improve our aikido and any who wish to aid us in this endevour are welcome. regards koyo way back then early 60's maybe late 50's
That is Noro Sensei, is it not? When I started aikido, a French friend of mine was regularly training at his Paris dojo. I think he had left the Aikikai by this time to start Ki-no-michi. I met Noro Sensei earlier this year in Paris. He must be around 80. Though he suffers from emphysema, his movements on the tatami are still very sharp. We had dinner and I sat opposite him and Hiroshi Isoyama: they had not met for well over 30 years and it was very interesting to hear their reminiscences of training as young deshi in Iwama. Japan is fine, but there are plenty of politics here. In fact I suspect that Scotland is fairly straignhforward by comparison. Like you, I accept anyone in my dojo who wishes to train in the way I expect, regardless of affiliation, but this brings me into conflict with local groups who do not like their students, especially yudansha, to come to me. They never say this openly, for I am fairly well-known in the Japanese aikido world, but I know it to be true. Kindest regards,
