Where would people go to train IMAs if they had a couple of years free & a $1000 monthly budget (for everything)? And why those places? Would the answer be different with a $2000 budget?
If you had no ties... ... like family, job. Go to China. Chen village would be good. Also, Beijing. Work with some of Wang Peisheng's students. There are others, but these are ones that I highly recommend. If you lived in US, you probably could find a place near where I train and work with my instructor on that kind of budget. Master Zhang Yun lives in Pittsburg, I'm sure you could find an inexpensive place to live there and train down there as well. These are the people I have worked with and can personally recommend. If you want a more rural area, you could live in Wooster and train with me. I know I can find some inexpensive place for you to stay and could easily live on $1000 a month. Good luck Marty
Going to China is nice and all, but my Chinese is minimal at best. I think I'd just stick around and pay for my classes here and use the rest of the money for something else. $1000 a month really isn't that much (it wouldn't pay my rent and my bills). However, if I had a good translator and I were going with several English speaking people, China or Taiwan would be my choice (for 2000 a month, of course).
Does anyone else know of other specific places? Either in China/Taiwan/SE Asia? I know of a few (listed below - almost all in china), but i don't know what they're like etc. Also does anyone know of others - particularly in Taiwan/SE Asia (eg malaysia)? Ones I know of [*= may not have international programme/ chinese only website] a) the official physical education institutes: - Beijing sport university, http://www.bsu.edu.cn aka www.bupe.edu.cn & Capital institute of phys ed: /www.cipe.net.cn (english info, unhelpfully, at http://www.cipe.net.cn/zhuanye/web/11a.asp) - Xi'an Institute of Physical Education* (www.xaipe.edu.cn) - Wuhan Institute of Physical Education* (www.wipe.edu.cn) (Both v close to Shaolin & Wuhan shan) - Jilin Institute of Physical Education* (www.jlty.com.cn - v slow) - Shanghai Institute of Physical Education* (www.sipe.edu.cn) - Tianjin Institute of Physical Education* (www.tjipe.edu.cn) b) wushu colleges - Taizhou* (http://www.lt168.com/tzws/gaikuan_e.htm) - Sonjiang (www.sjwss.com - they reply to emails quite promptly) c) independent martial arts institutes - Wan Laisheng (www.wan-laisheng.ch - french. see "institute-chine" page & "Comment s'inscrire" link for fees etc) - a school at wudang shan (www.wudang-kungfu.com; there are probably more) - various yiquan schools (http://www.yiquan.com.pl/englinks.html)
I think China is still the place. To fully immerse in the culture is an important part of IMAs. The exact location depends on the style you are interested in but you can't go wrong starting with the Northern part around Beijing and Tianjin area. If you want to learn the modern "performance" based wushou, then you can go to the official institutes. But if you want the traditional stuff, you'll need to search for unofficial, private teachers.
That's a very good point - one of the reasons I tried to ask a broad question; I've also heard that original internal practices/features of even the traditional forms taught at the official institutes have been lost - often during the cultural revolution - but persist in SE Asia (particularly in Malaysia) & probably among some private teachers on the mainland. I guess the only thing to do is to go there & ask around... One plus of formal schools is they seem to be able to organise visas (the 6m non-tourist type). Otherwise it's studying something else, teaching english or visa runs at least every 3 months... My default plan is to go to one of the yiquan schools around Beijing - but maybe to head south to try out the wan laisheng place (in the winter!)
If I wanted authentic IMA I'd actually go to Taiwan and avoid much of mainland China altogether ... it's vastly overrated.
Incidently, 1000 American a month would go a long, long, long way in china. You would probably have an easier time commiting yourself to full time MA practice there on that budget than you would here.
To locate your exact destination you need to understand a bit about the geographic location of different styles of CMAs. Many CMA styles are still very much concentrated in certain areas. For example, Chen's Taiqi is originated and still based in Henan Chen's Village, Xingyi in Shanxi and Hebei, Baguazhang in Beijing, Praying Mantis in Shandong etc. Also there are the famous migration of MAists. For example, Taiwan used to practise only local styles like Fujian Crane style but the Nationalist Government brought along a large group of MA experts from the mainland after the civil war. Xinyiliuhe Quan was a close guarded secret until Lu Chong Gao took it to Shanghai, so now most practioners are in Shanghai. Hong Kong used to only have local southern styles like Hung Gar, Wing Chun etc but the civil war also brought some IMA from migrants from Northern China. Malaysia has mainly Cantonese and Fujianese Chinese so the main styles are southern too. Of course in recently years that are spreading all over the world. Now back to my original suggestion, since the big three IMA are all from northern China so maybe that's where you should start. Taiwan is also good as I said many MAist who worked in the Nationist government moved there after the war, Liu Yun Qiao of baji fame.
Thanks Wuwei - that's an incredibly helpful post. Do you disagree with Syd's earlier post suggesting the mainland IMA practitioners are overrated? Also, I know that Chen taiji, xingyi & bagua are taught in the Beijing University of Phys Ed (& I'm sure also the regional institutes). Reading between the lines (slightly) are you saying the teaching at these places is lacking in some respects? In case anyone's interested in the Taiwan angle, this guy (Kurt Sholtes) has a blog about living in taipei & amongst other things learning ba gua with Luo Dexiu: http://kurt.mylifemyagenda.com He doesn't talk about the bagua training much (strangely - although he says its his main reason for being there), or give contact details. Does mention the schedule: 4 2-1/2h classes a week. From what he (& various ESL websites) say about costs, a $1000 a month seems doable (just) even in Taipei ...
I don't think Taiwan have more high level IMA practitioners than the Mainland but because the Mainland is such vast area, you might find it much easier to meet one in say, Taipei. In the Mainland, you need to be in the right area. I have no experience or real knowledge about what they teach in the institutes but I would guess that they will follow the modern, government regulated curriculum, eg, performance based form competition and san da (a Chinese variation of kickboxing with throws) competition. That might or might not be what you want. Yes you can live a very comfortable life in the Mainland and do alright in Taipei with that budget.
My information through friends who travel to mainland China regularly and stay there, as well as research on surviving styles that have escaped the Chinese regulatory bodies is that Taiwan has more authentic IMA's in existence still being practiced without being butchered and homogenised like mainland arts. If you find it different thats fine, I'm sharing what my sources and research tell me.
Syd - I think what you say about regulatory bodies homogenising the arts is actually completely consistent with Wuwei's comment about (likely) teaching in the official phys ed institutes, and his suggestion (post 10) that different arts are stronger in different places (ie implying that non-homogenized forms exist in these places). I think all the info above very useful, & when I have direct experience I'll feed it back into this forum. Can I just ask though if the friends you're talking about have found any particular places disappointing? Do they have any experience of any of the places mentioned in post 5, for example?
onebir> Good luck in your search for great IMA and hope you achieve success in MA. Tell us more about your findings later.
This spills outside the Institutes also and you'll find allot of this influence in the streets and the parks en-masse. Finding the surviving authentic old styles on the mainland is like finding a needle in a hay stack. From my information it's just different homogenization in different places, but again once you get to China there are zillions of styles the west has yet to even hear of. I wouldn't say dissapointing ( Mainland China ) but they weren't blown away either ... it was a so-so response. As to the 5 places mentioned, they probably do in more detail than I can go into but you would have to ask them. One of them lives in China now so he would have a very good overview these days as he is quite interested in researching the authenticity of styles. Good luck.
What about learning esoteric Daoist practices? I am planning to travel to China few times to explore the territory and see what I can't find. My goal is being accepted by a master (difficult enough) that is willing to accept me as a successor in the lineage (even more difficult). The problem is that these kind of people are highly reclusive and live isolated in the mountains. That's my plan though, live in isolation in the mountains for a period of time. Another place I was thinking of is Tibet, but this is also a troubled area, Tibetan monks are currently persecuted by the Chinese. In addition there is the language barrier, I can't speak a single word of Tibetan. What do you think? Has anyone tried to find the holy grail?
If you speak a bit of chinese, some of the monks at the baiyun guan temple in beijing are quite friendly. But when I went my chinese wasn't really up to persuading them to teach me anything... As for Tibetan, judging by recent tv programs pretty much everyone under 30 speaks mandarin. & you could study tibetan in tibet for a few $000 a year (university of tibet, www.utibet.edu.cn/PICROOT/20048241704.doc) & use that as a base to ask around...
Ta, I couldn't open the link but I asked Dr. Google and same. Anyway I am not that interested in the stuff available to everyone. You know what I mean. See what happens in the future. As the saying states: when the apprentice is ready the master will find him.
Thanks again to everyone who's posted here. + it turns out there's also a very informative piece on similar issues on the chen village site: (www.chenvillage.com "study in china" link)
