Ok a heavy question here that I'm not entirely sure will make much sense. (jeez what a preface!) The last several months I've been working in a lot of MSR or myofascial self release into my recovery sessions and now more recently as an addition to stretching sessions... MSR being rolling on foam rollers of different density to be able to release knots, blockages and adhesions in the fascia of the muscle tissue... an often painful experience. Now MSR is related to trigger point therapy in some sense and thought as such there may be people on here who would know more about it than me. As you know... when you lay on your side... let's say on the hip on a foam roller and you roll your body down towards your knee... you will undoubtedly come across a sore or tender spot... which you then stop and hold on the foam roller using body weight as the pressure until the GTO or golgi-tendon organ kicks in and your central nervous systems shuts down the muscle spindles in the effected area... there by in theory... relieving the knot/blockage/adhesion.... and thus the person on the roller starts out with a bit of pain and tenderness relaxes into a state where that particular spot is no longer as sore as it's been 'released'. Ok... I've been through this myself many times and I find that it has aided recovery between heavy days of training. In addition to just feeling good... it does seem to promote recovery and wellness. So... after all that blather... my question is... what part if any does the endocrine system play in the "release" of the adhesion and reduce the tenderness and pain? I don't think the endocrine system would have much regulatory effect on muscle spindles etc. but then again my knowledge of how this all works is amatuer at best. Would the relief that one feels when holding for 30 seconds on a painfully tender spot ever be because of the endocrine system response of perhaps and output of endorphins or some other similar compound? Just what if any part does the endocrine system play in the relief feeling from MSR. Surely if it was just an endocrine response there wouldn't be any improvement in performance or flexibility because of MSR. And surely you'd build up a tolerance to the opiate like substances that the endocrine systems uses to reduce/mask pain right? Thanks for anyone willing to take a stab at this.
I started using trigger point self-massage (Wipe that grin off your face) because I was having some serious problems with pain in my lower back, I went out and bought this book: The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook: Your Self-Treatment for Pain Relief Trigger Point Therapy Workbook: Your Self-Treatment Guide for Pain Relief: Amazon.co.uk: Clair Davies, Amber Davies: Books Now according to the book, the endocrine system kicks in with some pain relieving endorphines about 10-12 seconds after the initial pain is felt, the book actually makes mention of these because it says you can make use of them if massaging a trigger point (Tender spots as you refer to them) is to painful by giving it one deep stroke and then waiting 10-12 seconds for the endorphines to kick in and the doing the rest of the massage. I assume that does factor into the relief you feel in the rest of you're body but I'm pretty sure the endocrine systems response doesn't last very long (I want to say about 30 seconds but I've no idea why I think that). The relief I've felt from the massage lasts much longer than that. Slightly different side of things, trigger points are still poorly understood medically but they have been studied in a few hundred medical journal articles. The relief you feel form there massage is a relief in referred pain, current theory is that the trigger points occur close to where nerves connect with the muscle and are actually areas of muscle that are refusing to relax. They refer pain or stiffness to other parts of the body because they occur so close to nerves and thus slightly mess up the nervous system although it has also been noted that the pain is usually referred to a part of the body that is involved ion the same movements that would typically stress a muscle with a trigger point in it. Not sure how much of this you know already or if it helps at all.
Yes all good stuff to know. I'm also currently going through the same book. Not for any one pain in particular but just an assortment of them. lol. I'll respond more once I'm sat down with a cup of coffee. Cheers for that.
I don't have much to add to what Slindsay has said--it's right on the money. I will say that it has been almost two years since I've done massage on any regular basis, so I'm not as well up on the changes in theory as I should be, but Slindsay is correct in saying that the mechanism of trigger points is not well understood, medically. When I certified in it years ago, I was taught that the referred pain was due to TPs that were described as sarcomeres/contractile units that wouldn't voluntarily release. The pressure would cause the endocrine response as stated above and then further work would facilitate the release of the TP. So, yes, there is an endocrine response, but there is/should be a tissue change as well. Nerve impingement affecting a specific dermatome and hence referring pain to specific area was one of the theories/rumors regarding how trigger point may work. I don't know if that has changed here recently or not. The trend in bodywork seems to be moving away from 'muscle' and towards fascia (or maybe that's just where my personal interest was going before I went back to university and fell a little bit out of the loop). The works/websites of Leon Chaitow and Thomas Myers may be of some help to you: http://www.leonchaitow.com/ http://www.anatomytrains.com/ I know I've rambled, but I hope this helps at least a little. paz, dormindo
Dormindo, yes good stuff to know. I'm going to check out the links you sent. When you were doing the TP work was it mainly for your benefit or were you doing it on clients? How much of it was foam-roller work?
On clients. I, like a lot of bodyworkers, am terrible at taking care of myself (bodywork wise--I do exercise/train and eat well). I almost never used tools in my work and never used a foam roller. I would do it all by hand, only rarely using knobbies or the dolphin (tools that let you apply pressure to one spot or roll across a section of the body). One thing that I had done briefly was use rolling balls on myself. It worked great but I was too lazy to keep it up. It's known as Yamuna ball/body rolling, and you may have come across already if you're using rollers. A lot of my TP work was by hand because that's how I was taught it--for use on clients. I would, of course, have easy access to any part of their, far unlike when any of us are trying to work on ourselves. For work on oneself, you've got, because the roller or a ball would be the way to go. Myers and Chaitow are people I am interested in learning more from myself, as soon as some of my commitments in academia slow down enough to allow me to do so. I hope you gain something from the sites. paz, dormindo
Ah more good info bro. Yes now that I think about it... the bodywork that you do for clients is a different paradigm than what I'm doing for PT clients. But interesting none the less... in fact similar to what you're doing is a guy that I have that I refer most of my clients to if they have serious issues that I either can't work out or the foam roller isn't enough... and in return I get free sessions from him - which come in handy. Especially as in the lead up to my fight in Dec. I'm training twice a day. I'm still working my way through the Trigger point book as my workload with PT's and my own training is a bit dumb... but eventually I will head off to take some more in depth courses in that area. Thanks again for the posts.
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