Takamatsu-den Biken no Ho: Where can I find it? Where does it live?

I'm posting this thread up, in the vein of Fu_Bag's original thread. This one's for discussing good Takamatsu-den biken no ho, whether Kukishinden-ryu, Togakure-ryu, or even the bikenjutsu, kenpo, etc. of other lines of Takamatsu-den budo.

My motivation for opening this thread is to shed more light on good instructors and resources for the Takamatsu-den sword arts.

This thread is open to all forms of Takamatsu-den sword arts and not solely to the Hatsumi-ha variants, so if anyone here does other such arts and can recommend instructors and/or resources, feel free to jump in!

The rest of what I have to say here is pretty much the same as Fu_Bag's original post, so that pretty much sums it up.

 

As far as Bujinkan goes, rumor has it that there's a guy in Texas that is the one to go to for Bujinkan sword training in the USA. Don't want to mention his name without knowing whether or not he'd want the attention. Maybe someone who knows him personally could confirm before his name gets posted. :hat:

 

Luke Molitor

His name is Dr. Luke Molitor in Dallas, Texas. He is the one to go to for Bujinkan sword training outside of Japan - although he is also much more than just a "sword guy." His website is www.jigokudojo.org or www.dallasninjutsu.com. He is doing seminars in Sacramento on January 16-18, New York City in March (which I know will be on the fundamentals of sword work), and possibly Chicago in April. Hope this helps you out.

- Ken

 

Mr. Anderson,

Thank you for taking the time to confirm and post the information. I didn't want to burden Mr. Molitor with a deluge of inquiries without first confirming that it would be okay to do so.

:bow1:

 

Thanks for that pointer on that instructor all.

Does anyone have any other information on good instructors in other -kans or in non-Hatsumi-ha lines?

Which media resources (e.g. DVDs or the like) best depict good Takamatsu-den swordsmanship or provide instructional material in it?

 

http://www.genbukan.org/cgi-bin/site.pl?1314&show=13&sort=code&csStore_storeID=1

9th kyu - Chuden

 

Bronze Statue,

During all my years in the Bujinkan I have only come across a few who has had any skill in sword at all. Most just played with it like they play with taijutsu. At the moment, outside Japan, I can only recommend "he whos name must not be mentioned" :hat:.

Best regards / Skuggvarg

 

Voldemort's good with a sword?

 

I thought he meant satan...

Though I always pictured him with a gnarly axe

 

Could you explain what his certification means? He is listed as "Happo Biken Menkyo Shihan" on his site; what is the nature of this menkyo? It sounds like something related to bikenjutsu; to what ryu is it relevant, and what is he licensed to do/teach?

Thanks for the link. Have you viewed these videos? What is your opinion of them?

Basically that's most of what I've seen among Takamatsu-den instructors too, and not just the Bujinkan. As someone who's also an iaido guy, my main motivation in starting this thread was to shed light on the good stuff; all too often it's been that what I've seen would be an embarrassment, and would have been particularly embarrassing if the instructor had claimed comparable rank in some other ryu of swordsmanship that he did in the Takamatsu-den stuff.

 

Some of the Kukishin Ryu stuff contained on the videos from the Kuki family website are well worth the look for good Kenjutsu..Some great stuff is contained on those discs...Not Bujinkan, but related I should think..That would be my best bet for solid Kenjutsu associated with the Takamatsu-den..

 

Good call. I'll look them up. Do you know what the nature of those videos is, e.g. instructional vs. purely demonstration? (And if demonstration, are they worthy demonstration or specifically performance-jitsu?)

 

They're just enbu...Demonstration of the kata used in the school, there is no attempt made to teach in the films thank god as I guess it's recognised that the only way to learn those things is to train at the school..

I'm not sure what you mean by "performance-jitsu"though....Enbu is enbu...I'd certainly call them "worthy"...A very interesting group of kata to see...Even if I suffer from missing the background to some of them...

Does that answer your question?

 

Ok, that's pretty much the answer then.

I've heard that old chestnut before, never mind that many other martial arts put out instructional media and don't expect it to substitute for training at their school. I mainly wanted to know what the nature of the videos were.

I think it does answer it, yes.

If by "enbu is enbu" you are stating that all forms of enbu are necessarily representative of any given art, then I'd have to not agree that that is necessarily the case 100% of the time. Basically what I meant by "performance-jitsu" was technique specifically invented and/or heavily modified purely for the purpose of putting on a demonstration or show, and that may or may not be very representative or demonstrative of the art. I've seen that happen with several other martial arts (including even one koryu budo!).

That was my reason to ask about the nature of the video if it was a demonstration.

 

Hmm..Okay, I think I see what you meant.

As for if the Kukishin Ryu videos are like that, no...They aren't. They present the techniques of the school in a straight forward way, no explaination, no close ups, no talking about the technique....Just the form, like you'd expect to see from any decent Enbu here I'd guess (Accepting that you've seen something else being done of course...They are what I'd expect from a good Kobudo enbu).

Don't worry, I wasn't insinuating that you wanted the videos for that purpose..Just showing my relief that these videos WEREN'T of that nature...I've seen it attempted, and most times it's rather futile..That's all..

And no, all enbu are not the same. However, these videos are what I would expect from a decent school of good, solid koryu background. Something along the lines of what you'd see shown at the annual Meiji Jingu demos, or at the Budokan...I am aware that various groups have wildly different views on what constitutes "enbu", and have seen a fair distribution of good and bad, but since the Ryuha in question is Koryu, I meant my remark to reflect my belief that most Koryu would demo in a fairly straightforward manner..(Mileage may vary, depending on where you go, whom you see, and why and what they demo of course..).

So, in answer to the original question, by your standards, yes the videos are a "worthy demonstration" of the techniques of the school.

All the best.

 

Does anyone here know of any quality resources (or other information on instructors) specific to Togakure-ryu swordsmanship that would fit the descriptions mentioned in earlier posts (i.e. genuine skill in the specific art with the specific weapon, isn't an embarrassment among other weapons arts practitioners)?

 

Hey B.S.
There is no easy answer to your question. Except for Hatsumi Masaaki Soke, the old shihans would be my best bet. The only one outside Japan I know of whe most likely knows somethings about Togakure Ryu kenjutsu is Dr Kacem Zoughari (with something I mean more than what is shown in videos and books). He himself has stated though that he does not know all the kenjutsu kata of said school. Im not so sure there are any westeners knowing the whole school...

Best regards / Skuggvarg

 

What do u mean? Like DVDs/videos and such?

The Genbukan has some sword kata dvds and Im pretty sure the Jinenkan does as well.

Someone I used to train with in the Genbukan was really good and showed me the Togakure kata... If you PM me maybe I can share some insight?

 

Yes, and any instructors who are known for their skill.

Earlier posters in this thread mentioned a Bujinkan practitioner, but it wasn't apparent just what the nature of his instructor license was.

Yes, you mentioned that earlier in the thread. I asked your opinion of them; are they something that wouldn't be an embarrassment in front of other sword arts or other weapons arts practitioners?

Thanks!! I'll message you about it soon.

 

In terms of resources such as DVDs etc., I think that one could do a lot worse than the stuff released by the Jinenkan which presents the Kata of Jinen Ryu Bikenjutsu, Togakure Ryu Ninja Biken and the Kukshinden Biken no Ho in a clear and concise way.

Of course, while these discs will give you an overview, you can't use them to learn these arts in any depth. They are however useful to let people know what these ryuha contain in the way of sword techniques so that they are at least aware of the gaps in their knowledge.

My own favourite is the Jinen Ryu disc closely followed by the Kukishinden ones.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1clBqyZ-xek"]Kukishinden Biken no Ho[/ame]
As for the question of how people from other arts would view the discs, I can't really answer because I don't do another art.
I guess that the Jinen Ryu and the Kukishinden discs would be relatively well accepted but maybe the Togakure Ryu stuff, because of it's subject matter and the controversies around it's legitimacy would raise some eyebrows.