Kihon Happo and Sanshin no Kata - Where can I find them? Where do they Live?

If a regular or potential student of what is collectively called, or referred to as, Ninjutsu wanted to learn these forms/kata correctly, who would they need to see? If you have constructive information to offer, what information can you offer as to why you would recommend such a person or resource?

Personal training experience, online demonstrations, DVDs, etc., all are perfectly valid resources to base your opinion off of. Even if you can't offer personal experience with a particular teacher, there are probably other people around who can. At the moment, it appears that something needs to be done with regards to quality control and helping people to navigate some rather "stirred up" water(s).

Any (positive) advice that students can offer to people outside of the art might also prove to be very beneficial to people inside the art. I hope we can keep this positive in nature and in direction. I know there are people within the art(s) who want stay involved in what they're doing and who also want to bring about positive change. If this thread can remain positive and productive, then perhaps other productive threads will sprout?

Let the positive change begin. :hat:

 

A good source would definitely be Ishizuka sensei or Someya sensei.

Also, the Gyokko Ryû DVD put out by Quest is very good. In this new version, Manaka's Sui no Kata is replaced by Senô, and the others look very solid too.

And of course, Sôke is always a great source. I have a video with him teaching different applications of Sanshin on Gran Canaria. It's very interesting!

And finally, I'm sure Kacem Zoughari can give some good pointers on Sanshin

 

From what I understand that paticular video was filmed for Pedro Fleitas. I also would reccomend Kobudo No Kihon.

 

The footage of Takamatsu sensei training on the Takamatsu Dvd.

 

While the recommendations of videos are good... you can't really learn from them.

I would suggest learning from one of the original shihan. Ishizuka sensei, Seno sensei or Oguri sensei.

 

Then why bother making them?

 

That is a good question indeed.

 

As a training aid, not as a substitute for having a teacher.

 

And, not forget, as inspiration.

 

To my knowledge, Mr. Manaka's videos for kyu- and shodan-rank testing material explicitly teach the kihon happo among a few other things. Of course, it's demonstrated a la Jinenkan, so I don't know how helpful that is to a forum as Bujinkan-heavy as this one.

As for sanshin no kata, that's a tough one in my opinion. I don't know of any particular resources for that one.

For instructors, it's also a tough call. Many instructors do sanshin no kata many different ways; some are dramatically different than others. I do not know any particular reason why that is the case, though.

 

Takamatsu is not your Soke.

Hatsumi is Soke and you should use his most recent DvDs/footage solely.


Good luck getting the senior shihan to show you Kihon...


Your best source for learning kihon is a sempai who is a grade or two above, they will show you enough to get to the next level.

 

I couldn't disagree more. Some former dojomates of mine have done exactly that; though they did not go to Japan actively attempting to request a lesson plan, they showed up at one of the senior Bujinkan shihan's classes, and the shihan in question happened to spend the entire class teaching punching and ichimonji no kata.

I also disagree that sempai a grade or two above are the best sources. I'm not discounting peer modeling as a cognitive process in learning, but why would such a source be somehow better than a fully qualified instructor? (Unless the source a grade or two above is the instructor; in which case, you've probably done plenty of kihon practice already on the way to your dan rank.)

 

......you'd think it'd be obvious to people.....

 

Because you shouldn't be wasting a high level instructors time.

Of course someone who has been teaching and training for 40 years can show you Kihon and even transmit it more effectively than a peer but the question is could he be using his time to teach someone else who is at a higher level and needs a greater level of assistance.

Even someone who has been training a year would probably have done the Kihon Happo atleast 150 times. That is more than enough to transmit it to someone else.

 

Thanks, Bronze Statue.

It sounds like the videos would make a great addition to a reference library. Politics aside, Mr. Manaka was sent to the USA to teach and correct the basics before he ended up starting his own organization. So I would agree with you that a senior instructor such as Mr. Manaka feels that teaching the basics is a worthwhile usage of teaching time. Does anyone know if the Dojo-cho of the Jinenkan are consistent in the way they teach/demonstrate kihon happo and sanshin no kata?

Thanks in advance.

Fu Bag

 

Everyone seems to forget Someya Sensei, he's been my teacher for 10 years now and every time i'm there when it's quiet or when i notice, especially during the warm up, that the visiting students Kihon etc is not good i specifically ask him for Kihon Happo and /or Sanshin, he sometimes teaches it anyway when he sees that the standard is not good, i am genuinely embarrassed by the standard of some senior blackbelts and i wish more would get off their ego and go and train with Someya Sensei or any of the other senior Shihan and say to them, PLEASE TEACH ME THE BASICS CORRECTLY.

I am happy that the Japanese Shihan have now been instructed by Soke to teach it again, i know Noguchi Sensei does this regularly now, he is going through the Ten Chi Jin, i'm just disappointed by the lack of numbers going to these classes.

 

I mentioned him

 

There's some research done, orginally at the behest of the military, which shows that a learning model is at least as effective, and sometimes more effective, than an expert model.

That is, as long as the 'learning model' is actually trying to learn....

 

Kouryuu,

Thank you for sharing this information. Do these opportunities exist only for blackbelts or are the classes offered to interested students at all levels?

Thank you for your time. :bow1:

 

I'm not Normski, but I know that if you go up to Someya sensei in Honbu, ask him if you can come to his class and then show up with good manners and attitude you are probably more than welcome He's one of the nicest men I met in Japan, not just in the Bujinkan.