Steroids (split from "want to get muscles" thread)

Steroids won't get him that and the testicles tempororarily shrink due to the extra testoserone being injected/orally taken therefore the testicles stop producing testosterone, it has no effect on the penis. Testicles grow back after a steroid cycle.
Also, steroids can stunt growth due to the ends of the bones fusing too early, weights don't cause it per se.
Nobody in there teens should EVER consider taking steroids, not that the OP is!!

 

In 20 years of training I have never ever seen "roid rage". I have, however, seen lots and lots of alcohol fuelled rage!!

 

are you saying you do steroids?

 

Eh Which part of "I have seen...." implied that I am using?

As previously mentioned, I have been in the bodybuilding scene for 20yrs, I have seen a lot and have been surrounded by bodydbuilding and it's participants for all of that time.

And the reason I compared roid rage to alcohol fuelled rage is that every "lay" person I have ever met seems to think that if a person uses steroids that they will be a roid rage head. However, due to the social acceptance of alcohol the much higher incidence of alcohol rage is hardly worth a mention, just making a point about preconceptions.

Did you know that a large constituent of the male pill is a dose of up to 750mg of testosterone Enanthate, which is one hell of a dose!? This is one of the most potent steroids available and yet because it is prescribed for birth control all of the "apparent" side effects must vanish!! Strange isn't it?!?

However, we are getting right off topic here

 

Funny you just mentioned that. Just few days ago I watched that "Bigger, Stronger, Faster" documentary and they said steroid overdose accounts for only about 3 emergencies per year putting it somewhere 100th on the list (right after vitamin pill overdose :bang. Yet, alcohol is in the first 5 and is much more acceptable. I'm in no way saying that we should start using more steroids and ban alcohol, but it's just something interesting to think about.

 

I have also seen that documentary and it is excellent IMO. The steroids were 142 on the list and vitc was 42 I think. The thing with alcohol is the social acceptance as so many people drink, weddings, funerals, Christenings, Christmas, Birthdays etc etc, the list is nearly endless and the drug itself is very destructive if abused. I too don't think alcohol should be banned at all, I enjoy a drink myself. The issue I think is the general population think of it as cheating but, unless you are in a sport that is tested and it is classed as cheating who are you cheating?? For example, if a sprinter uses steroids and crosses the line first versus one who isn't then that is cheating. If a bodybuilder competes and uses steroids along with every other competitor and the competition isn't tested (in fact the freaks could not be that freaky without them) AND everyone that goes to watch KNOWS they are on steroids and they WANT to see freaks then who does it harm? There have been quite a few deaths in bodybuilding but it is normally down to diuretics and fools using ATP (RAT POISON!!!) as a fat burner to get more ripped.
The total hypocrisy as far as I can see it is that the general population seem fine about cosmetic surgery (tummy tucks, stomach staples, face lifts etc etc) and even fat burners (some which can be prescribed by the doctor which can stop your body absorbing fat which is actually dangerous, but hey that's ok because it is prescribed!!!) but when someone goes on the gear to gain muscle tissue they are "cheating", give me a break!!!! Most of the time decent bodybuilders eat clean, live clean and exercise which is a FAR cry from some of the people who would sit in their chairs being critical while smoking, drinking and eating rubbish who actually look for easy shortcuts to lose fat instead of exercising and eating correctly!!

The same goes for people thinking if you do MA that you must be violent when the truth is that MA can bring balance to your life making you less inclined to violence!!! On this score bodybuilding and MA are in the same boat. I would like to point out I do not promote steroid use as I do not promote alcohol use, let's just be open minded and put things in perspective and say each to their own, no more than that. The issues I have are with drugs that inflict onto other people who aren't using, heroin addicts stealing for their habit for example, cocain if abused can destroy lives also, never mind meth and I suppose the list goes on, now these drugs can rip families apart, lose people their jobs and basically devastate lives!!

Remember that people who don't do anything with their time and lounge about getting fat are often very critical of anything that requires dedication and anyone who dedicates to anything in a serious way because they don't understand what we do and they never ever will. Whether bodybuider or Martial artist or both, we should have empathy for one another!!

More power to us :fight1::lifting:

 

Nice post!

The inconsistencies between the dangers of many legal drugs and the listed dangers of illegal drugs is often blown way out of proportion, particularly by the media. For this reason public opinion about legal drugs is often tempered by experience, where as their illegal drugs that they have not personally experienced is usually down to what they have read/seen/heard about them.

For most steroids the 'average' person is going to assume that they will make someone huge and muscular although they'll probably have every single one of the listed side effects as well as some from urban legends which are very loosely based on facts.

As TopHalf says this is only compounded when a bodybuilder dies from diuretic/insulin/DNP abuse, or worse from a legal medicine and the blame automatically falls on the steroids they are or have taken in the past.

Why? It sells stories. Steroids are a villain and the majority of the public have a knee jerk reaction to any tragedy in which they are involved.

Having said that, 99% of the population have no need for them, unfortunately the same media demonization will often work as a tool to persuade many people that steroids are the 'magic bullet' they need to compete when often it is just a matter of time spent training.

edit: By compete I mean at a personal level, obviously a pro-bodybuilder/powerlifter (or by some reports/opinon olympic athlete) would need steroids to compete.

 

i'm currently coming off a 12 week course of AAS and yet not once did i experiance any roid rage...

side effects noticed:

blood pressure increase (from water retention)
acne increase
increased appetite by far (including sexual)
shrunken nuts

 

Why did you choose to go with steriods? Just curious.

 

Thanks coma.

Ok seeing as this thread has turned quite a lot into a discussion on "gear" I am going to add a little more of my own experiences. When I was asked "are you on steroids?" I answered "no" because I am not. However, I have competed and I have used steroids. I would like to point out that there are a number of side effects that I noticed so I am going to list them. Oh and side effects are a VERY individual thing!!!

Very increased sexual appetite

Shrinkage of the testicles (they grow back) and can be helped by using HCG and clomid

Initial increase in appetite that eventually tapers off but doesnt drop back to pre-use level whilst on

Increase in strength always occurs after 3 weeks on and size increase starts to occur, rising progressively for most of cycle but does taper off as does growth

Slight increase in blood pressure (measured at doctors) which is caused by increased red blood cell count. (Some people really suffer with that one)

Spotty back (increased testosterone increases greasy skin etc, mine just happens to be my back but not everyone gets this

Bitch **** (gynocomastia) caused by too much testosterone in system, your endocrine system sees the imbalance and converts some test into estrogen to try and address the issue. Some men have estrogen receptors in the nipples and voila, bitch ****. I have had this a little from when I was 14, I have small lumps under my nipples (I have seen guys with full on Moobs!!!) which a lot of guys get anyway. I don't get growth but I get slightly sore, I use Tamoxifen to prevent this as this drug "binds" with the estrogen receptors therefore blocking the estrogen

General feeling of well being and in my case I get less illness but then I eat very well and takes my vits and mins

Sometimes the "pump" in the muscles can be so extreme it can hurt but the look of the muscle is a reflection of this (also due to increased red blood cell count).

Ok so, there are some of the side effects that I have had, now for some that other people have had:

Moods (only one guy I ever knew, and he just sat in the corner of the gym and sulked if we didn't want to do an exercise that he wanted to that day

Just to add a bit on mood and "roid rage", I have found that people who are idiots in the first place just turn into bigger idiots, it's not the gear it's the person and strangely these same people also turn into bigger idiots when they drink. When I lived in Hartlepool and did MMA (about 7 yrs ago) I remember some young lads training and at the end of the session they where discussing how they were going to "use" some of their new techniques on people that night as they were going out on the town!!! They were basically going to find trouble just to beat on people with their new found skills. Now this isn't MMA making these lads into idiots, these are idiots who do MMA!!!

Water retention (some people when taking a strong test get this, it is also due to the estrogen issue and is why some woman retain water, it just happens that I don't get this

Bad acne

An aching lower back (normally caused by inflamtion of the liver. People who use lots of oral steroids get this as most oral steroids are specifically designed to pass the liver unchanged but unfortunately this has a negative effect on the liver. Ironically it is much safer to inject as the liver processes the steroid very slowly and the compound is not altered for protection from the liver as this is not required, the steroid is picked up slowly from the injection site in the muscle by the blood and does it's work and eventually passes through the liver. To say all steroids are equally damaging is hocum!!)

Hair loss (Hair loss is not caused by a high testosterone level, it is a genetically driven process. Hair loss is caused by testosterone being converted to Dehydrotestosterone which attacks the hair follicles. So men who are bald being more sexual due to a higher test level is bull. Some men convert readily so if you give them even more test, like steroids, then they are more likely to lose their hair earlier but they would have lost it anyway eventually. I still have hair like action man and I am 35 and have used steroids!!)

There are other side effects listed and I have discussed this with my doctor. Basically a drug company MUST cover their **** so they list EVERY possible side effect, it doesn't mean it's going to happen. If that was the case you would never use any drug. Have you ever read what paracetamol or aspirin can do never mind vitamin C, it would scare you off if you thought they were all going to happen.
When I spoke to my doctor about the gear I told him I feel better and that my asthma greatly improves and unbelievably he actually said "magic arent they". I could have fell off my chair but he followed up to tell me how they have been demonised through sport and that they can save peoples lives and the side effects are always blown out of proportion!!! I now have totally open conversations with my doctor but he is the minority and I am very lucky indeed. I am also lucky as he very much trusts my knowledge on not only steroids but also dieting, I think the mutual trust helps. To come accross a doctor who is willing to listen to experience and not patronise you due to his PHD (which I have had) is nice.

I would like to point out that steroids are NOT a magic bullet. There are more people in my gym on than off and it drives me crazy. They come in and before they even pick up a weight they ask what they should be taking which is pathetic. Steroids are a bit like mortar when you build a house, without workmen and bricks all you have is mortar but no house!! They tie things together quite nicely and allow you to recover better and, promote protein synthesis which in addition to food helps you to grow. Steroids by themselves are just a waste of time and money. About 90% (and I am not kidding) of the ones who are using don't look anything special at all. Some guys come in and buy and you can't even tell they train, I am still amazed by the utter ignorance. I trained for years and put on over 3 and half stone without gear and always vowed never to touch anything. It wasn't until I decided to compete that I even considered it because everyone else was using and I could see with my own eyes the advatage that they would have over me.

I cannot begin to describe how much effort I have put in to compete, from gettiing out of bed at 4:30 in the morning to do aerobic work, eating 8 times per day, eating dry steamed turkey breast for breakfast for weeks on end and then having turkey and a few grams of rice for the next 6 meals before having an egg white omelette for supper. Then when you are so tired due to this diet and training after about 10 weeks you still have to do aerobic and weight training and do your job and consider your family. It really is extreme but as you people who do MA will know, when you are dedicated to something you do what you have to do to be the best, it is as simple as that.
This is the side of things that laypeople will never ever understand, and tbh I like that, it seperates us and shows why we are different from other people.
What I like is when people say "so are you a bodybuilder?" I say "yes" and when people say "but I thought you did MA", I say "yes, I am also a martial artist", and damn it if I aint proud, and why not

Next time you see a huge ripped bodybuilder don't just think "steroid freak", iimagine how much work the guy has had to do to look that way, most people train for over 10 years before they can turn pro and some even longer than that and tbh that is only the beginning of their career!! I can only imagine the sacrifices they have made as I have only competed at regional level and know how hard that is.

 

Interesting discussion here guys and some excellent points being made. However, it was way off topic from the original thread so I've split it off into a new thread (i.e. this one).

 

because i'll be competing next year in bodybuilding and i know what it takes to be a winner in this field. Natural bodybuilders is not a look i strive for....

but a crackingly good post by tophalf69, top stuff....

i'm well known across the UK forums such as MT, UKM,UGM etc and my online journal shows that i busted my ass getting to a very good size natty (18" arms, 47" chest, 29" thighs etc) before going over to AAS.

i thought i'd add to the side effects noticed:

*scalp and back itching like a bugger due to the increased DHT levels
*back has sprouted hair in good patches where there was none
*some itchy nipples but was countered by having Nolva on hand

 

Thanks incredible Bulk and by the way, good luck with the competition, I am also going back to competition next year at the UKBFF North East Champs which I think will be in October. This is also close to a grading date with my Wing Chun so that should be fun, the least energetic grading of all time or me on tons of black coffee eyes like dinner plates performing Si Lum Tao at double speed

That's one I forgot, I have more hair on my traps (but not like a gorilla )
Also, my scalp and back sometimes got a bit itchy when I was on, I never considered the DHT link so I have learned something new there, nice one

Actually one last point that kinda amuses. You mentioned that "you know what it takes to be a winner in this field", and I concur you have done extremely well with your training and have done it the right way, it's a shame isn't it that the other sports that so blatantly have use going on can't be so honest, for example: Rugby, Football, athletics, olympic powerlifting, cycling (now these guys are even more impressive pharmocologists than bodybuilders, I kid you not!!!), beta blockers in snooker and shooting, swimming to a lesser degree (I think!), baseball, American Football (check the difference in the teams overall weights from mid 1900's to now, it's astounding) and last but not least the UFC!!! This is no way an exhaustive list just a few off the top of my head. Now I know that not all of the individuals who partake are using, but some of those guys at the very top, hell a lot of them, ARE!!! Some of the new drugs that are available are very difficult to detect and there is also a growing use of growth hormone which is as yet undetectable (well except with high usage some people experience growth of the hands, feet and jaw and you can also end up with calcium deposits on your cheek bones, elbows and knees. Have you ever seen one of those people that have too much growth hormone production naturally, they are normally over 7 feet tall and you can see it clearly by their faces.)

Dunno about you Incredible but I have been sat watching the TV many many times I can spot who is using rather quickly, even our lass is up there at spotting it now, you know, that certain "look" to the musculature, man who needs drug testing lol!!!

I suppose though that bodybuilders have it easier in one way, we are allowed to be honest about it when we compete, I can't imagine trying to sneak a bag of someone elses urine into a drug test so I don't get caught only to be told later that I am pregnant :wow::cry:

 

cheers tophalf

people think that a few jabs in the ass and you will grow like a weed.
I see many many many people on UK forums who are on high doses of AAS only to look like a natty trainer who has commited to 2 solid years of training.

Such a waste...

I'm using a low dose (500mg sust) per week and because my training/diet/lifestyle/recouperation are tweaked to suit me, i am seeing great gains.

My girlfriend is cool with it, i was upfront and honest...she had all the same preconceptions of me boiling over into a rage, usual media BS.

Being a vetinary nurse she even offers me tips on injection technique lol.

Next year i will be hammering the compounds heavier to maintain muscle mass while i trim off the fat...clen, winny, masteron etc

Sure i know there is long term effects but they are reduced compared to when i was doing MMA and suffering broken bones (ribs, nose, toes), cuts (3" gash on head from a knee) and other joint problems (arm bars, kimouras).

I know bodybuilding isnt a healthy 'sport' but its one i'm passionate about

 

Are steroids illegal in the UK? Like on this side of the pond?

 

legal to own, legal to use...illegal to sell

here's a weird bit, pharma grade is ok but get caught with underground lab stuff and you can get rapped on the back of the hands

friends have been searched by the police and they found 4 vials on him, just put them back in his pocket and sent him on his way lol

 

That's kinda silly. If you are allowed to own it you should be allowed to sell it...oh well.

So is there anyone on the board that has had a negative experience?

 

They're the same as any prescription drug, obviously using and owning a prescription drug is fine, selling them is a very different matter.

 

So they are actually prescribed for bodybuilding over there? not just for medical use?

 

Just medical use, there's nothing in place that means people with a prescription for hormones needs to carry their prescription all the time so if the steroids are pharmaceutical grade you don't have to prove where you got them. As IB said earlier, if you have underground non-pharmaceutical drugs the law is a bit greyer.

For the record I'm natural, I just like reading and there's only so many weight training/ bodybuilding sites you can read before you start to pick up this stuff, particularly if you have an inquisitive mind!