Not! Question eating me: WHY is it that after 13, maybe 14 YEARS since MMA really became well known and a "serious" sport/challenge....there is no Wing Chun to be seen in the rings and cages? WHY, can we after 14, maybe 15 years since the 1st UFC changed fighting sports not even see new or "mutated" Wing Chun styles in the rings and cages? I mean i did Wing Chun for a while, at the same time i tried a bit of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, and one day i saw the head teacher, owner of the schools in my Jiu-Jitsu class. That was a good moment and i was happy to see him, that is a prime example for all fighters: a master who knows he must keep learning. So why is it that it's 2008 now and nobody in MMA uses Wing CHun, adapted Wing Chun or even has Wing Chun background? I am not disrespecting or even starting a riot, no. I know Wing Chun users who risk their lives doing security work that i would trust to watch my back. Solid men. But i am just amazed that there's not a trace of Wing Chun to be found in MMA competitions these days. Especially because i see many sloppy fighters in even the biggest MMA events that rely on size and strength but can not even box properly. 1: How come nobody that does/did Wing Chun does MMA tournaments? Moral/ethical objections? Are they all priests and pacifists? What's the deal? 2: How come nobody that's already in MMA tries Wing Chun to add to his arsenal of skills? Thinking of the recent C. Liddell vs W. Silva fight, Wing Chun could have made a difference. (it was a punch/stand-up fight) 3: MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION: Why is there no Wing Chun used even in stand-up tournaments like K-1 and similar things. Actually is there a modern tournament on earth where Wing Chun is used? 4: Is there not even a handfull of techniques in Wing Chun or Jeet Kune do that can be used in MMA? I never see 1 WC/JKD technique in MMA. I would love to see something new. I'm tired of sloppy boxers that can't even jab or guys that say they study Muay Thai but can't even perform a teep or low kick. MMA needs more dedicated fighters that study their technique. This goes for all arts and styles! We need to move ahead to learn. I hope that 2008 will bring Wing Chun or JKD to MMA. Don't attack me, i'm just stating the situation and asking questions. It's 2008 people. PS Other traditional arts on the contrary are represented in MMA, i see fighters with Karate background(Semmy Schilt, Georges St Pierre) Glaube Feitosa), Judoka, Tae Kwon do, Muay Thai, Savate, Classic Wrestling...even boxers step into MMA rings. The funny thing is that karate users are now champion in K-1 and UFC!!!! Jeet Kune Do, wich has strong marketing, is supposed to be the next phase. But Jeet Kune do is nowhere to be seen in MMA. Sambo is fairly new as well, and made out of a combination of traditional arts from all over the world. Just like Jeet Kune do Sambo was meant to take the best from the old and make something new. Except sambo users do very well in MMA... 5: Sambo "dominates" MMA through Fedor Emelianenko. But where is Jeet Kune do? Did the late Bruce Lee not advocate proving his style by entering competitions? I don't see any JKD in MMA tournaments. Why?
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73135 This thread was locked, but you might be interested in the youtube link in the 2nd post.
oh no... not this again. If that second post is getting brought up... then let's look at the third... On that note... I predict massive sales in popcorn for the year 2008! GET YER POPCORN HERE... FRESH HOT POPCORN HERE!!!! :d
Thank you so much for this link!! This is what i want to see. Fast well-aimed punches that actually reach their target. Not sloppy like many MMA fighters often do. I believe that there is place for Wing Chun technieques in MMA. But where are the fighters? Nice vid. PS to the poster that quoted the 3rd post without reading carefully....NOBODY here even suggested that Vitor Belfort does Wing Chun. Nobody even said that he has heard of Wing Chun. It's just the thing he does resembles a certain technique. It is very well possible that Belfort is a classic western boxer.
hmm... fast well aimed punches that actually reach their target... thrown by an MMA fighter or someone who's NEVER even studied Wing Chun. Apparently the irony in your post has eluded you. lol. I LOVE THE SMELL OF TROLL IN THE MORNING!!!
"hmm... fast well aimed punches that actually reach their target... thrown by an MMA fighter or someone who's ever even studied Wing Chun. It appears the irony in your post has eluded you. lol" What i said does not exclude eachother. I simply said MANY MMA fighters are sloppy punchers. That can still hold if some like Belfort are nice and accurate. What's your point? Are you saying i make no sense? Don't I? Then tell me. I like the smell of bread in the morning. AND PS: Again you make assumptions. I never said ONLY Wing Chun users can do accurate punching. I am not claiming anything for Wing Chun, neither do i practice it anymore. Please don't put any more words in mouth.
Nice thread edit. Don't worry you can address me directly I won't bite. Do you not find it ironic that an MMA fighter with a boxing background is being held up to highlight what is supposedly a Wing Chun technique?
Yes, it angers me. I think Wing Chun users should also find it ironic or even maddening. I hope they do something, because it makes them look silly. (or lazy) I totally agree.
One doesn't have to rely soley on stellar punching in the MMA. It's a multi dimensional game. Hybrid if you will. The punching and striking end of the game have been dominated by arts that are light years ahead of WC in terms of effectiveness and history in actual combat usage. There's a reason why YouTube and the net in general isn't brimming with WC combat vids but it is with MT, Boxing, MMA vids... because by and large the majority of those types of arts practice against live, resisting opponents... not wooden dummies that don't strike back. You're asking why no WC practitioner is in there? I'm guessing because WC by itself isn't going to get them anything but KTFO. It's that simple. Maybe... just maybe if they cross trained and got a ground game then they could jump in and get somehwere. But straight WC? I doubt it. I'd say overall the type of person going into WC has different goals than a person going into MMA. The mindset is radically different. The style is obviously radically different. The physical conditioning is generally speaking radically different. So really there are a veritable plethora of hurdles for someone who studies WC to get over before they could enter an MMA competition. That right there is probably the single biggest factor in why there have been none to date. I find it funny that you talk of MMA fighters having sloppy punches... when the vid clip to two renowned WC master (Boztepe VS Cheung) looks like some terrible MMA with sloppy punches and bad ground game. Ironic-O-rama.
I must agree with you again. Nicely said. i understand what you mean with the types of persons that take up an art for different reasons. However, there are also some "hard-style" Wing Chun schools that focus much on the physical fitness and hardening aspects. Those guys are definitely different, they knock out people. So i'm still hoping for Wing Chun, in some form, to enter the octagon. (nice title for a film) By the way, i checked that Vitor Belfort video again....look at the angle of his arms and the way he walks forward to the retreating Silva while punching. (check his wide legs.) I'm sorry, but it looks more like Wing Chun than Western Boxing. Not claiming something, but it's just so ironic.
Yeah maybe there are. I seem to remember seeing some clips from someone with a WC background fighting in an amatuer MMA fight. It wasn't the be all end all... but perhaps a start. I think what they're going to find is that as they get into competitive MMA they're going to find that much of the WC goes out the window and more of the MMA and all it's components take over. I could be wrong. But I'll believe it when I see it. And that as we know hasn't happened in 15 years. Errr... you do realize that throwing left and right straight punches from the shoulder while moving forward is something that has been used in boxing probably since it's invention right? I'd seriously doubt they're even being thrown with a vertical fist a la WC.. more knuckles to the ground as they're taught in boxing... er... that'd be because of VB's boxing background. What did you expect him to do... land a left right and then not follow it up with more and not move forward? (or in Belfort's case right/left because he's a southpaw) If you think that is WC then I'd have to guess you don't actually watch much boxing on a regular basis.
Nah mate, i am not saying it's WC.... I do watch and practice boxing. I am referring to the angle of his arms, best seen by looking at his elbows. Vitor seems to be punching propelled by his TRICEPS and not his shoulders. Western boxing is from the shoulders and hip movement. Not triceps. I don't see that in boxing today anymore. I really don't. I only see that in very old boxing footage, the black and white films. Also his wide leg stance is also not boxing. I have never seen a boxer walk or rush with his legs wide like that. Wide yes, but always a lead leg and hind leg. I tell it as i see it. Look at his arms and how his punches are propelled. I can't see too good, but i think his fists are thumbs up/vertical and pumping forward. That's very very unorthodox. Noone can convince me that Vitor is in a typical Western boxing stance in that movie. Not saying he does WC, just looks a little bit like it. (little)
Looking at it again, he is between hooking and straight punching. It's not WC, but it's a bit strange. Anyway, he knocked the other dude out in 44 seconds, so i can't complain.
Not entirely true. Watch anyone coming out of the ABA or Golden Gloves... most amatuer boxers punch from the shoulder because they're going after points not after the KO unlike pro boxers. You might want to look at Manny Pacquiao's punches... he's well known for being a fighter that punches from the shoulder. Again... it's not a boxing match. It's an MMA bout... take a look at his boxing instructional and you'll see exactly where his stance is coming from. The wide stance is there for stability. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5862962332507700236 Again... take a look at his vids on how explains training.... it's not a vertical punch. He's not going to explain one way on his vids and then fight another way. It wouldn't make any sense. No one is trying to. He's not in a boxing match. He's in an MMA bout... so I'm sure he's made the adjustments he needs to.
Slip the Jab quote:"Not entirely true. Watch anyone coming out of the ABA or Golden Gloves... most amatuer boxers punch from the shoulder because they're going after points not after the KO unlike pro boxers. You might want to look at Manny Pacquiao's punches... he's well known for being a fighter that punches from the shoulder." I said exactly that Western Boxing is from the shoulders. That is exactly what i said and how it is tought al around the world. I don't get your last post Slip-the-Jab... you are saying exactly what i said. But as if i said something else. You even qouted me in that same post!! You are not avin' a laugh with me are you?
Did we forgot to take our pills this morning? I have never seen or heared about anyone being killed by chain-punches. Only this one time at band camp. But that was bear. Luckily Chuck Norris was around. Edit: Oh wait....the sarcasm has sunken in. Sorry, i'm really sleepy. Should go to sleep but i wanna watch K-1 Dynamite. Gotta go work in a few hours too. If get hit by a car, it's K-1 that killed me.
What I'm getting at is that the vast majority of western boxing is taught using the legs and the hips to generate power in punches. Which is why I contrasted pro boxers with amatuer boxers. But there is some leeway either side as much depends on the individual. Ideally in boxing punches are thrown with the whole body... the toes/feet dig in, the knee turns in and the heel turns out at the same time the the hip rotates forward and the arm is along for the ride. The punch can be thrown even if a person was armless... because the power is generated primarily from the hips. Which is often where you see a crafty boxer use a shoulder bump to the opponents chin on the side the referee can't see. In fact IIRC Hatton ate one in his bout against Mayweather recently. Yes there is shoulder and arm involved... but it's rooted in the legs and the hips. Thus the old saying in boxing... that baffles many people that don't box: Boxing is a leg sport I reckon that no matter how your throw a punch your triceps are involved. But it's not generally taught to generate power from the triceps as a starting point. Not havin' a laugh. Just a bit of crossed communication on my part.
