We've been looking at bunkai quite a lot in classes recently, particularly studying sections of kata and thinking about what the applications would be. Thanks to a lot of the discussions I've had on MAP, and training sessions I've had with various MAPers, I tend to end up with quite different applications from many other people in the class, largely because I have a set of "rules of thumb" for applications. They're things like: Don't create defences to attacks that would only be done by a karate person Don't do ineffective attacks just to fit the kata Don't defend against unlikely chains of attacks (no "the application is to block a punch then block a jodan ushiro geri") Don't turn away from someone after defending an attack - finish them off first Don't think about flashy appearence. An ugly but effective head-butt is better than a cool but risky rolling arm bar...etc Most of these rules-of-thumb are kinda condensed into a gut feeling about whether an application has a chance of working against someone who wasn't co-operating with you. So, do you have any rules that guide you when thinking about kata applications? What are yours?
Aw... look at this lonely little post. I'll give it some company! -The movements are responses to common attacks (the famous HAOV kind). I'm not defending against a spinning back kick with any of these. -"Blocks" are not purely defensive motions, but rather responses to an attack. The preparatory movement is more likely to be a deflection, as opposed to the final motion of, say, Age Uke. -Kata includes locks, chokes, and throws. -Both hands are doing something. -Only one attacker at a time. -While so-called "pressure points" based on accupuncture theory MAY be targets, it's more likely that the targets were points of leverage (ex- stomp kick to the inside of the knee to get a buckling effect) or to the more common debilitating points corresponding to human anatomy (ex- eyes, chin/jaw, temple, ears, back of the head, throat, short ribs, solar plexus, etc). -Forward motion is a clear sign of attack. If someone is in range to punch you before you step forward, you're not "blocking" the end of their punch by getting in their face. -Turning motions should be examined as a throwing/felling application. -The movements may have originally been different (check out the variances across styles) but were meant to be taken literally as opposed to symbolically. -There is no wasted motion... although there may be some missing motion. -Stance matters and isn't for show. -You finish one opponent before addressing another. These are some I've been working with. Haven't taken a formal class in years but I still practice what I've learned with a heavy focus on practical application.
Mr Moose You should have been at the MAPmeet where I explained it all in detail. Or at least attempted to briefly summarise my current understanding. However, I have written at length on this already. Would it be against MAP TOS to link to the article on my website? I hope not, I'll take the risk anyway. Have a look at http://www.headingleykarate.org/article8.htm in which I explore my view that kata is simply a catalogue of (primarily mechanical) principles. No techniques, just principles. You have to work out what to do with them. But equally importantly, you have to identify a way to test the validity of any proposed bunkai. Happy reading. Mike
I use my own system i call the 5 Fs- Face- you face your opponent- the direction your face is pointing tells you your position relative to your opponent. Fist- most likely beginning of attack is big, right handed punch to the head so bear this in mind when looking at your first move, particularly if you are looking at the opening move in the kata. nF- not Fancy- your attacker is a thug, not a martial artist, so, as someone else said, you are defending against simple, effective, direct attacks, not fancy kicks. Few- 2 or 3 moves at most, anything longer will be scuppered by loss of fine motor skills and other effects of adrenaline and increase in heart rate. Finish- last move must be a biggie/finisher, you want you opponent on the ground, ideally unconscious or incapable of getting up quickly, so you can scarper! You must work with a Kata you know (posture/stances/accross transitions) and move away from formal into realistic attacks and responses asap. Think like the bad guy.
my MO for analyzing kata: 1- figure out where force is being issued in a movement (regardless of speed, just the directions) 2- figure out in what position a human body would have to be in relative to mine for the issued force to actually do something. 3- identify possible situations in which someone might end up in such a position, and therefore figure out what the other person is trying to do to me, and if it's congruent with what i know about attacks (for the record, while people generally don't straight punch, stuff that works against straight punches can also be used against a one handed grab or push). 4- assess if the technique either works in tandem with the opponent's movement or starts with a "facilitator" that enables the following movements to be done with minimal interruption (examples: controlling the arms, striking a vulnerable area, moving to the outside on a deflection). if not, discard temporarily, since it'd get me punched in the face halfway through. 5- if necessary, tweak things (stepping, angles, etc*) to make the technique viable, or to find out other possible variants for the same movement principles. 6- if nothing seems workable, discard temporarily, else incorporate the application into my "intent" when doing the solo form (since at the moment i lack minions on whom to test them). *note: i don't use literal stances for bunkai, although i do look at the general tai sabaki principles used (move forwards, move backwards, turn, etc) practical example: naihanchi/tekki shodan: in the first 5 moves, you step out to the right, "block" (yeah, i know) to the right with the right hand, elbow to the right with the left arm, chamber both hands at the right hip, block low to the left with the left, then hook punch to the left with the right. obviously, you're doing something to your right first, therefore the opponent starts there, but since the moves end to the right, their point of greatest force is before that, so i generally take them as applied to someone at approximately a 45ยบ angle, although some can be used for someone approaching straight from the side. now, we have an outwards right-hand uke-waza applied along with irimi (entering). if i were to be attacked by a right haymaker, this wouldn't do crap, as my block is covering the opposite direction, and i might still be hit even if my block hits the guy in the face, therefore the right haymaker is out. a left haymaker, on the other hand (or for that matter anything done with the left hand that i manage to notice in time), could be intercepted by it, but it does not factor in the other hand, which is still free. a solution for this is to go for the face or neck rather than the attacking limb (easier done as a pre-emptive, like most commonly "reactive" movements), attempting to "stun" the opponent for enough time to go for the elbow strike, while still leaving my blocking arm in a place where it's useful if the punch still follows through. straight punches are not very common, but pushes and grabs might be, so another potential use is perhaps against a right shoulder or lapel grab before a left haymaker. if (a big 'if', of course) i happen to be aware of said grab and react in time, i can use the stepping to try to get outside of the grabbing arm, and the uke-waza to turn the offending limb, therefore ameliorating the threat of the potential haymaker, while leaving me relatively free to elbow the opponent. low-line attacks (leg kicks, stomps, knee strikes) might be implemented in individual cases, and it's always good to be aware of a small repertoire of possible "hidden techniques" if one is good at improvising against targets of opportunity. moving on, we find the next three techniques, a koshi-gamae, a gedan-barai and a kagi-zuki. you'll notice these are done to the left. want to use them as follow-up? just step forwards and do them to your left, where the opponent you just elbowed will now be inside the "sweet spot" where the movements are strongest. now, the koshi-gamae essentially boils down to pulling with the right hand, since the left is more or less in place from the elbow strike. this enables easy arm control in either situation, making the gedan-barai good for a shoulder pull, facilitating a trip over your leg, or a smash into a wall or piece of furniture (with or without a literal hook punch added in somewhere). all told, it's little more than block, elbow, reposition, pull, with the block acting as facilitator for the elbow, and the elbow acting as facilitator for the pull (as obviously this would be quite silly to try if the opponent is not softened up by the initial movement). another possible variable is if one does not react to the right grab in time to get to the outside, and has to avoid the left punch as in the first scenario, would be to elbow high, over the grabbing arm, and then use the koshi-gamae and gedan-barai to pull downwards and outwards on the elbow of that arm (like an underhook), to open up the opponent's ribs for a good old right hook. it's quite a bit long winded to explain in text, but rather simple in actual application, although as with anything, it relies heavily on being able to spot aggressive intent and react fast to it, ideally before the actual physical aggression begins, and of being able to use the very first movements effectively so that you're safe from possible follow-ups while you do your own. if that first movement fails, no pre-drilled combo is going to be 100% effective, which leads me to another point: i don't see bunkai as something to be recreated 100% faithfully in a combat scenario, an idea i consider downright dumb (massive props to whoever pulls it off, though ), but rather as an exploration of possibilities, not only to be drilled as-is, but also as a pool of ideas for controlled freeform training, where one could find which of those possibilities come more naturally to each trainees, so that focus can be more efficiently shifted relative to one's strengths and weaknesses.
Just a few (of many) that I use: Generalised reactions to generalised attacks (from HAPV), rather than requiring a specific attack for the technique to work against. For instance, the opening move from Seienchin works equally well against a straight punch, a swinging punch, a grab or a shove. Every movement at worst puts me in a neutral position relative to where I started, and should put me in an improved position. In other words, everything I do is intended to gain the initiative In some strings of kata movements, the second and third techniques can be alternatives to the first technique in that string , or options to recover if the first goes wrong. Techniques in the kata are often devoid of context; they don't explain why someone grabbed your wrist, or has you in a headlock, or got close enough to grab your throat, Huey just provide aids to remember what to do once it has occurred
I think the one big thing that I have learned so far (as a naive white belt): -If you have the upper hand and you got your opponent in a position where he can't do something to you, at that point, you run for it. This is only in really real-life circumstances, not competitive, of course. -Or if you are given a chance where you can escape, you take it and run. -Also, aim for anything along a person's First Meridian (nose, throat, solar plexus, kin tama). -Any kata we are performing or practicing alone, that we need to visualize someone attacking us. We do get to do some techniques where we practice with each other and have either the instructor or black belts checking us out. I have no idea if my post is appropriate answer for this thread... Please don't scrutinize me! I'm just a cute little novice!
just to add to what melbgoju has said: Always keep in mind that the overarching objective is to learn combat principles, strategies and tactics not individual techniques. The structure of the Kata, the techniques that are performed and the performers shift in weight and direction are providing examples to demonstrate fighting principles for managing the chaos of a real fight. It would be impractical to attempt to learn individual techniques for every conceivable type of attack, much better to understand the "rules" so that you can apply them to any given situation. If you only practice the techniques as a defence against single attacks..you are missing the more valuable lessons the kata is trying to convey. For example, the opening moves in all the Heian/Pinan kata's has you turning to the left and performing a "blocking" move. The various applications for the techniques are fine, but the consistent message is to shift out of line of your opponents direction of attack, preferable to his blind side. Why? Main reason is that you will not be dealing with a single technique, but a series of a things rush, grab, multiple punches, pushing etc (it will be very very aggressive) and the easiest way to minimise the impact of these is to move away from their line of attack. You will also be suffering from a form of shock (adrenaline dump, freezing etc) you need to keep it simple. This is a strategy. Note: Why turn left when most people will lead with their right hand. Kata bunkai interpretation rule number 1: You are facing your opponent and the direction you are looking is always in the direction of your opponent at that moment in time. So when you turn left in the kata, you are actually moving around your opponents right side, not at a right angle to your opponent (or you are moving around his left side depending on kata...). The whole point is that it is a general rule not a specific "you must do this then do that"). End result; you have moved off his line of attack and ended up in an advantageous position.
This is a fundamental point I think. A common mistake is to slavishly follow the sequence of the kata. You come up with something good for one move, so you try to dovetail in the following move too. Sometimes this may work well, often it doesn't. And even if you can make the next move work, is it the best/simplest thing to do next? Often the answer is no, but you feel good because you've been able to 'fit' the bunkai to the kata. I've done it, and at some point or other I've seen every teacher (of bunkai) of note do the same thing. Its an easy trap to fall into. This is you working to fit the kata. Its the wrong way round. What you really want is to make the kata work for you. And you do that by extracting the principles from the kata and applying them freely, as the situation demands with no requirement to 'fit' the kata. Mike
I always find that the right bunkai is intuitive, because I have already done it hundreds of times within the kata. So I guess if it just really feels right, if I don't have to force it then I feel I have a good bunkai.
I adopt a very simple approach to the evolution of Bunkai. Look beyond what I have been shown / taught...the person may be a) holding back, b) lack knowledge or c) dreaming Can the move be used on a) the inside of an attack, b) the outside of an attack or c) from the outside attacking the inside (split entry) ? Can I use the move to a) attack, b) parry (follow the force) c) block (meet the force) d) lock, e) choke / strangle, f) throw, g) limb destruct (deaden muscles), h) break something, i) off-balance or j) defend against multiple attackers ? Does the application of the move break the rule book? (may be useful for self-protection) Is the application a) simple and b) spontaneous ? Can I use the application under pressure ? Key to success is to stretch the imagination and work outside the normal box or comfort zone.
And another thing... The principles embodied in a particular move don't necessarily have to address the initial attack. A particular move may be employed at any point during the physical confrontation. Techniques can usefully be categorised in the following way: 1. Entry technique - receiving the initial attack 3. (I'll come back to 2) Exit technique - the final decisive technique / the last thing you do to extract yourself from the situation 2. Intermediate techniques - anything that comes between Pretty much any kata move can be applied at each of these stages. Mike
I have over the years come to the conclusion that the primary function of kata is actually as a teaching tool used by Teachers. It does not really become useful to the student until they have learned how to begin applying combat principles and understanding how kata conveys the information. Learning Kata by itself, without the instruction that supports it, is just a collection of techniques with no context and is essentially a nice angry dance. With the supporting tuition and training, Kata ultimately becomes a Mnemonic for the student (a catalogue of combat strategies and suitable techniques) which they in turn use as a teaching aid to remind them of all the lessons and principles they need to teach. Ok, I am being slightly simplistic but you get the gist
When I look at Kata bunkai I prefer to look at it from the point of view of techniques first, combinations second, principles third. I don't limit myself to what may be commonly taught as 'the technique', so for example if there is a combination of a down sweep followed by a thrust, rather than always look at the two as separate items I might take the end of what is thought of as the down sweep and the start of what is thought of as the thrust and work that motion for my bunkai independently of what comes before or after. I believe that sequences and combinations can sometimes be applied as per the form, but often I see several sequences as showing multiple options from the same starting point depending on your success. Similarly I see some combinations or techniques as redundancies for other combinations. I generally pay very little attention to the line of movement or the direction of the head in the Kata. Sometimes it can be there to teach something, but a lot of the time it is there because of the intent to get back to the starting point. It may also be there due to the layout of someone's pot plants in the yard. I don't let such things constrain my thinking. With regard to the head movement - it is often only linked to one of many possible applications, and to follow it slavishly implies that the Kata's originator understood all the potential applications for the movements they were drilling, or were not deliberately obfuscating their intent - I don't know that. When actively studying bunkai I look at the individual techniques first against HAOV. Then I look at them as positions I might have moved to following other responses. Then I look at combinations. Then I look to see if there is potentially any underlying principle that might be taught through what I'm doing. For me my bunkai has to meet as many of the following criteria as possible: HAOV Relevant Legally Underpinned (not a concern I'm sure for many of the originators, but if I teach a lethal response to a non serious threat then I'm liable) Effective, Efficient and Easy (I'm always trying to work gross motor skills that will be accessible when the heart rate is elevated rather than fine motor skills) Minimizing Risk of Harm (defender) Technique Multiplicity with Transferable Skills (does training this reinforce and work something else? Does this approach clash completely with my existing skill set?) Utilizing Predictable Response Taking and maintaining the Initiative Inherent Redundancy (if something doesn't work I want backups) Vital Points Targeting (not necessarily pressure points, but areas of the body I know will do things) Adrenaline Tolerant Low Maintenance Stable Posture Physiology appropriate movements utilizing Natural Positions
When I think of bunkai I think of the movement as on one level, being very detailed and sometimes quite style specific but also on another level much less detailed and a "gross movement". For me that helps to "see" what uses the movement can have and what concepts it can illustrate. So for example a reverse punch in style "A" has the chamber start a certain way, fist correctly formed, end up in a certain position, twist just so, the foot placement just so so etc etc. That's one level. On another, very simple, level one hand goes out as the other travels back in. I think you need to, in some cases, drop the details and see the movement. That also helps you see links between arts as movements become more generic and versatile when details are less important.
I might have agreed with that once but now I'm going to disagree, slightly. Whining on about mechanical principles again...if the supposed application utilises the same principles as embodied in the kata movement, then practising the kata will improve - or at least maintain/reinforce - your ability to successfully perform the application. If, on the other hand, the kata merely reminds you of the application then yes, its just a mnemonic - of some value to teachers but not really to the students practising the kata. No prizes for guessing which line of reasoning I subscribe to! Mike
Grosser mechanical principles being more important than finer mechanical principles, eg. the fact that your arm is extending being more important than the specific fist formation or the specific height at which your arm is extending. Mike
Hi Mike Funnily enough I don't see your point being incompatible to my views on kata being a teaching aid. I think the answer is the kata has multiple functions, else in a very simplistic way we could just watch youtube videos of solo kata performances rather than having to actually practice solo kata ourselves. The problem is that the benefit a student receives from kata practice is improved significantly with the aid and support of an instructor to guide the student through understanding the principles and applications. The student can then take the kata away and improve their gross motor skills through practicing it solo whilst visualizing fighting applications. This leads on to playing with alternative bunkai options, practice against resisting parterns and finally understanding in both a mental and physical sense the underlying principles. ..So having said all that, I still think that primarily kata it is a teaching aid for instructors.
Kata serves as a way to teach many different techniques, and it allows the practitioner to learn things he wasn't explicitly taught. For example, take a good practicing karate black belt of most any style and grab them, they will almost always be able to find a way out of it, because even if they don't know it the have done the motion before in kata, and it becomes reflexive.
Yes that's what I'm getting at. The details (type of hand shape, height on execution etc) seem to vary over time and from style to style. The main shapes and movements seem to remain.
