Your Religion (if any)

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by Master J, Apr 27, 2004.

  1. philosoraptor

    philosoraptor carnivore in a top hat Supporter

    So whose stupid decision was it to serve soup?
     
  2. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    :D
     
  3. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    Exactly.

    Don't be attached to the concept of the spoon because if you look you won't find the spoon.
     
  4. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member

    spoons?

    ... A bit rash. You might be living in the spoon.

    Or looking for it in the wrong place.
    If many tell you they have found it, ought you not to accord them the respect of tentative credulity while you continue with your own search. Think how hard it was for us to find our own martial path.
    ... And if some discern or even create some cutlery (who started this?!?), and it is beautiful and helps them have good table manners, what does it matter if we prefer chopsticks or eating with our right hand (only!).
    At least our faces are not in our plates.
    Again- respect where it is due.
     
  5. Dean Winchester

    Dean Winchester Valued Member

    But there is no me either.


    It's their attachment to "it" that means they can't yet realise that there is no spoon or soup for that matter.

    Equally though there is no matter so never mind.
     
  6. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member

    A twist in Descartes-
    If self is delusion, who is deluded?
     
  7. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member

    But even if I don't agree with some central tennets of Buddhism, I still have to respect its past achievements, buildings, culture, the ethics if compassion, drive to clarity, MARTIAL ARTS!
    And present achievements - Thai monks treating addicts, the gentleness of the Dalai Lama.

    To dismiss it as superstition shows a lack of historical and social awareness.
     
  8. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member

    dalai lama

    ... and his incisive intelligence and political astuteness in dealing with China. Or am I deluded (on the nature/existence of reality OR his religious motivations) to do so?
     
  9. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    My religion is, like the vast majority of people on this planet, the one my parents, and the prevailing culture around me, told me was true as a kid that then as an adult just happens to be the one I think is the correct one.*

    *I lied. I thought for myself how all religions have the same evidentiary basis (wishful thinking and a whole load of hope and false certainty) and so rejected my parent's religion for the accident of birth and circumstance it so clearly was and is for everyone.
     
  10. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member

    Accident does not equal delusion. Many TRUE scientific discoveries were accidental.
    While it is true that our parent's religion is often far from compelling, due usually to their lack if conviction and coherence, it's basis (in culture, social evolution, history, and even maybe in fact) is worth seriously testing before throwing out the baby with Dean's spoon.
     
  11. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Read it again please because I don't think you understood it.
    That's the opposite of what I'm saying. I'm saying that most people (the vast majority) simply adopt the religion of their parents.
    Despite that religion having no more claim to being true than the language they speak being the "true" one or the nationality they have being the "best" one.
    When someone tells me their religion and it is the same as their parents I couldn't be less interested.
    It's people that change or lose their religion that are interesting because there's a story there. There's some thought and deliberation.
     
  12. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member

    They are interesting.
    What I am saying is that religion is an interesting phenomenon of itself, and so are its various expressions.
    But when and whether we change, reject, return to, deepen our understanding, the 'story' needs to be connected with the thing, in order to be understood.
     
  13. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    What religion were/are your parents Remi? And what's your religion now?
     
  14. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member

    Narrative

    Dad: Agnostic-Anglican-Jew
    Mum: traditional Roman Catholic - by traditional I mean practicing but not thinking about it too much.
    She brought me up in this tradition.
    I saw some good in it, but rejected it because of the numerous incoherences .
    At various times
    non practicing, researching privately, daliances with Pentacostalism, non-practicing again.
    Then I met some people who did understand it, had sold their possessions, given the money away and come to this country as missionaries with their children. Very intelligent people, inspired by faith AND rational..
    I started believing again, researched.
    Left the Fire Brigade went to university, BA Theology and Religious Studies, including world religions, MA in Systematic Theology under Protestants (where I looked at Platonism and other philosophies and epistimics.
    Taught A level for a couple of years, then veered to naughty children and from them to the police.
    But religion became more important to me as I went and informed my respect for my KM students and even for the reprobates I dealt with in the police (and the criminals as well!)

    You are right, the narrative can be interesting (if I haven't put you to sleep). But the religious phenomenon is fascinating, I think.

    Finally, in answer to your question -
    Roman Catholic. But rational and convinced now, rather than just 'cause my mum told me.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2015
  15. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    But that's the essence of postmodern esoteric practice.

    If I feel a spoon might be helpful, I'll employ psychological techniques to bring a spoon into my perception of reality. Then I'll forget all about spoons when I need a fork.

    It's a more fun way to get to the same place. And, as it's all about the journey, why not pick the route that gives you the chance to be a Cthulhu cultist? :D
     
  16. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I completely agree that religion, and the supernatural impulse of humans in general, is fascinating.

    It's just that, in my experience, any positive aspect associated with religion can be done better without ascribing objective existence to supernatural entities.

    And I do feel that my experience is very relevant, as not many people have had contradictory religious experiences. People who come to religion from a revelatory experience tend to stick with the first one they find. To do so is to test a sample group of one, which proves nothing.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2015
  17. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    And going with my current posting theme also tend to have a revelatory experience of the religion they know anyway. Another coincidence that leaves me cold and disinterested.
    Not many nominal christians suddenly have a revelatory experience involving the Tuatu goat god of borneo (made up god alert) for example. They tend to get visited by Jesus or something.
     
  18. Remi Lessore

    Remi Lessore Valued Member

    Isn't that a tad condescending towards people who choose to deepen their understanding of what they have got
    It's like the cross-training thread.
    There is nothing wrong with looking elsewhere, especially when you have a deep enough understanding of where you began, but neither is sticking to one thing and deepening it.

    And proof?
    the proof of the pudding is ...
     
  19. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Yup.

    The mind is truly amazing in its capacity to not only reflect one's beliefs in how we perceive the world, but in how our unconscious imagination can provide vistas so compelling and beyond what our conscious mind expected, that we can literally convince ourselves of anything.
     
  20. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Gods and MA are similar, in that they both need to be tested against others at some point to prove their effectiveness. Without that, all you have is unfounded faith.

    Or, at least it's not the same if you just choose to believe in the first supernatural being (or advanced alien entity, which are becoming more popular these days) that talks to you (or makes their presence "known" in some way).

    You don't have proof if you've only eaten one pudding. You'll never know if other puddings you never tasted would make yours taste like dung in comparison.
     

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