Your country's prosecution of self defence?

Discussion in 'Self Defence' started by SWC Sifu Ben, Nov 24, 2021.

  1. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Never mentioned a heavy bulky multi-tool. I'm not talking about one of those big pliers type jobs.
    Mine is small enough to function as my key ring. My actual car key is about the same size for example.
    It's one of these (previously had a leatherman micra).


    [​IMG]
    It can do most of the jobs a regular knife can (the folding blade is pretty good but obviously not suited for "proper" knife jobs) with the added benefit of additional functionality a knife can't match (pliers, screw driver x2, file, scissors, tweezers).
    As I said knives are totemic and have more cache than a multi-tool key-ring and so have a different place in culture even when they are demonstrably less practical as EDC tools.
     
  2. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Last 3 things I used my multi-tool for.
    Opening packaging (used the specific package opening tool to limit penetration rather than the blade but blade would serve)
    Removing thorn splinter from sons finger (tweezers)
    Putting batteries into a electric device while out on a day trip (using the philips head driver to open the battery compartment).
     
  3. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    I'm with you on that. Multitools are an unsatisfactory experience in whatever tools they have.

    I really don't like non-locking folders at all, from a safety point of view. But if you're opening boxes and cutting fruit they're fine.
     
  4. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Oh absolutely. They are at best crap scissors, crap screw driver, crap knife, crap tweezers, etc
    True jack of all trades but master of none.
    But they are a damn sight better at being a screw driver (or tweezers, pliers, file) than a regular knife is.
    They are like cross trainers in martial arts. Not as good at the specific areas as a specialist is but the whole becomes greater than the sum of its parts.
     
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  5. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    I had a funny thought before snoozing last night, the comments about Leatherman must have got me thinking about this because of something I'd read.

    When I checked my hunch, I was right. It was in the official 9/11 Commission Report.

    The 9/11 terrorists pulled off the worst terrorist attack in history with 1 inch utility knives and Leatherman with 4 inch blades that were not banned on flights at the time. 3,000+ people died in a single day from (in part) knives you can find in any garage, workbench, or back pocket. I often do contracting work, I always have a couple of different blade lengths in my kit. So I guess I'm well prepared for self defense with them, if I get bum rushed on a job and have to arm myself, I can honestly tell the court "it wasn't a weapon, I was just cutting vinyl tile your honor" :D
     
  6. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    The offensive weapons act*.

    Made, intended or adapted.

    Now go and do your homework. :D

    *This doesn't apply in America because you are all mad. :rolleyes:o_O
     
  7. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Isn't that the truth, Simon, as much as I hate to keep reminding myself.

    I'm generally a very positive person but this age is getting to me. Everyone here is at war with each other daily, even at the dinner table. I'm not the kind who engages, but the one who sits there and tries to listen to everyone, until it's time to get up and go get a walk in some fresh air. Thankfully I only have a couple truly warped people in my family and they aren't that close.

    Gun and knife self defense is never really a topic of discussion anywhere in my family, and we live in semi urban areas. Crime is just not as bad a factor in most places.

    But, I know too many people who are convinced the whole country is about to explode and they are arming themselves for it.

    I think those people are largely frightened and a little paranoid and who can blame them, because with everything going on right now, it seems more and more possible.

    How long before some school board member gets acosted by a rageful parent over a mask or vaccine issue, and has to pull a weapon? How is that going to play out in public.

    "he's a murderer, killing an innocent parent for just exercising their right to make choices for their children and end the Fauci regime!'

    That ridiculous statement would have seemed fantastical just a few years ago. Now you can practically picture it.
     
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  8. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    I do wish to clarify I'm fully aware of knife violence in the US.I would not downplay the potentiality of the horrors of people applying their knives to others. I can cite some grisly statistics and studies. My ex brother-in-law's brother was needlessly slain with one by a literal psycho.Among other local niceties over the years.
    I don't think there's anything pertaining to cultural differences just because I've had a use for knives thousands of times over the years-and I mean excluding in formal employment- and you didn't. I do find it odd you've never needed one when friends and fellow employees have always been asking me to do something for them with it or to borrow it for a moment.*shrug* Just another tool for me.

    You folks use your teeth or something?

    OK,sorry. Didn't have those in 1961! I've never felt the need to switch over despite the stigma some attach to it.
    I've got a "Swiss Army Knife" with more functions than your multi tool.So if your criterion/argument is simply overall depth of application then you should carry one of those.So where's it end?

    A knife is still fairly practical overall.Granted,not pliers or a power drill but they perform a lot of function beyond just cutting.Never felt the need to carry a whole tool kit on me. I won't argue they can be totemic. Like when sheath knives were fashionable in the early 70s.

    O' course one can take a rifle apart with a dime. So never felt the need to take a screwdriver in the field when hunting either. In the 40 years or so in my field of employment a 4 inch or so blade was more practical for my duties. If I had to tear some equipment down I had a tool box.
    No.A lock or fixed blade is always preferable for opening boxes,especially when operating at a fast pace. You'll note the majority of razor knife case cutters aren't foldouts.There's a reason for this.
    Seems like a 3 day ban for racism should be in the offing.;)
     
  9. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    This is why I’ve stated I believe it’s a cultural thing , pretty much nobody over here carries a knife , whereas , from what you’re saying it’s pretty commonplace where you are , I do get your point of it being just another tool , I do own a couple of knives for different reasons , I just don’t have a need to carry one around with me.
     
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  10. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    OK,but culturally does that have more to do with laws there? How long has it been that folks have been restricted in the carrying of bladed items?

    Was it illegal when cousin Winston was PM or was it not unknown for the working class guy of the WWII generation to commonly have one in his pocket in them there days?

    Laws do of course shape culture as well as arise from it.For example if Angleland was a bigger land mass and the ruling classes hadn't controlled the vast majority of the property as private game preserves for hundreds of years the populace today wouldn't have as great an anti hunting sentiment simply due to the fact that a greater % of them would have been hunting the last,I dunno,3 or 4 hundred years? If the people of the US had been for the most part banned from hunting due to a similar socio-political environment the anti hunting % here would be even larger than it is. Just an example. I get your point.
     
  11. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    I think it’s more to do with the fact that not many people hunt over here , although there is a relatively small but passionate hunting community.
     
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  12. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Yes,because as I noted the general populace has been pretty much barred from it for hundreds of years due to the monopolization of great tracts of property by the upper classes. Reread 3rd paragraph above.

    Naturally the growth of the % of populations in large urban settings has a good deal to due with outlooks on such matters as hunting for the same reason-they and their previous generations were divorced from it not due to restrictions but simply due to where they lived.Most common people in London or Manhattan weren't making trips out of town to go hunting in 1840.

    If folks don't do an activity for generations there isn't likely to be much interest in it by most.If everyone was barred from playing football -which is the international sport today- for a couple hundred years you might have trouble convincing people to lay out a pitch and try the game.
     
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  13. bassai

    bassai onwards and upwards ! Moderator Supporter

    I read the third paragraph just fine.
    To be honest , there’s hardly anywhere , or indeed , anything to hunt over here compared to America , the “laws” you’re railing against are more to do with preservation when it comes to hunting , and we have are much more densely populated than you guys.
     
  14. Mr. Tickles

    Mr. Tickles Banned Banned

    Here in the states, whether or not what you do is considered "self-defense" depends entirely on what your social standing is.

    If you're a popular frat-boy type, you can pretty much assault whoever you want and walk away with little more than a slap on the wrist.. while the guy who defended himself from you will get some form of jail time.

    If you're anyone else, you can't do jack.
     
  15. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    We have a couple of self defence threads open at the moment and both are being ruined by foolish opinion, rather than added to with knowledge and understanding.

    bsflagfacts.gif
     
  16. Mr. Tickles

    Mr. Tickles Banned Banned

    You want people to respond with what's on paper. I'm being realistic.
     
  17. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Facts and statistics dear boy.

    Case studies.

    Where and why did cases for and against the prosecution break down, etc, etc, etc.
     
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  18. Mr. Tickles

    Mr. Tickles Banned Banned

    The fact that there would be in-depth case studies on this is proof enough that how the US views self-defense is backwards.

    If the system was running how it should've (ie devoid of consideration for people's personal feelings on the matter), the charges would have been thrown away almost immediately.

    Instead, because of social politics, the baboon troop running the show thought their happy selves would drag this out.

    His life was almost ruined because of the fact that the system is now more about feelings than facts.. whether you like that or not.
     
  19. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Self defence cannot be based on people's personal feelings, otherwise there would be a queue a mile long outside of every courthouse.

    Things would be a great deal clearer if people understood what they can and can't do, instead of what they feel they can get away with, or want to do.
     
  20. Mr. Tickles

    Mr. Tickles Banned Banned

    What people can and can't do depends entirely on who is involved and how the officer is feeling that day, not what actually happened. Full stop.

    Why are we still pretending actions actually matter? It's insanity.
     

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