You can't learn Bujinkan from video

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by The Unholy, Jan 27, 2010.

  1. Kuroshinobi

    Kuroshinobi Banned Banned

    Unlike most of your friends or yourself.

    I don't watch anime.

    I have yet to even see an episode of naruto... yet amazingly everyone loves to assume that since i'm over a computer like them. That I am supposedly the same way they are.
  2. Kagete

    Kagete Banned Banned

    It is not possible due to the fact that it isn't possible. No more than you can explain to me the concept of isshi soden.
  3. Nick Mandilas

    Nick Mandilas Resistance is an option..

    But sometimes personal experience can be factual evidence.

    I touch the stove top, it is hot and I burn my fingers. I tell my son not to touch the stove top because he will get burnt. He asks how I know and I tell him it happened to me.

    Does he need a 12 page test report from a government funded lab proving that hot stoves burn hands?

    You tell me?

    From my own experience, when I first wanted to learn BJJ I thought I could from a series of Gracie insider tutorials a mate gave me on DVD. I thought I could pull an armbar from guard perfectly because the tutorial on the clip was very clear, pointed out all the possible flaws in execution of technique, and I seemed to get it right each time. No matter who I tried it on, it worked, until I rolled with someone that had plenty of BJJ experience and dipped their head low and brought an elbow out to stop my leg from coming around as I tried to rotate on my back, I now found myself in their side-control with a knee coming towards my head...

    thats just one example to throw onto the ever growing pile people a building in this thread...

    give it a bloody rest.
  4. Ace of Clubs

    Ace of Clubs Banned Banned

    2 years in Japan. Russia after that, then either India or the middle east after that.

    I'm not planning on coming back anytime soon :hat:
  5. Hissatsu

    Hissatsu End of the Road: Moved On

    As an aside - as interesting as discussing logic flaws is with Kuro - can a mod step in here? This is wrecking this board.

    Thanks in advance - either way.

  6. Kuroshinobi

    Kuroshinobi Banned Banned

    That's called begging the question aka circular logic.
    Why is it you guys have fallacious way of thinking if you're so correct as you make yourself seem to be?
  7. Kuroshinobi

    Kuroshinobi Banned Banned

    That's funny... When i rolled with some guys fighting in MMA I did extremely well.
    And they were on their ways into the pro.
    Like I said earlier.... People are different..... perhaps you're not good learning that way.
    Some people are better at being told
    SOme people are better visual learners.
    Etc etc.

    This is a form of experiment.
    You're attempting to demonstrate the stove is hot.(Physical)

    In order to prove it's hot you used a physical action that happened to you.

    You tell him that it caused a burn mark and essentially the only way that's highly probably cause for you getting a "burn mark" is that the stove is hot.

    You're not relying on a personal testimony story... You're relying on physical demonstrative evidence(which could be presented).
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2010
  8. Kuroshinobi

    Kuroshinobi Banned Banned

    We are actually talking about the topic... You're interrupting though.
  9. Nick Mandilas

    Nick Mandilas Resistance is an option..

    okay so to be 100% clear you are saying that you have only learnt from instruction videos and that you can take on MMA professionals, no sweat...correct?

    Or perhaps the people I train against are better, while the people you train against just aren't as good as you think they are.
    Or perhaps you really are one of those amazing people that can watch a DVD on how to do armbars then take on Anderson Silva and hold your own...what can I're awesome! :rolleyes:

    Well it can only be presented while the burn mark is still there, right? So if it was 12 months/a year/ 10 years down the track, when a child goes to touch a stove I only just turned off, you're saying that my advice to leave the hot stove because it burns, is worthless because I have no physical proof.

    You're also saying based on your above comments that the child could answer "well I have touched other stoves before and they didn't burn me, they were just warm...maybe you just have softer skin" LOL

    forget it. Actually Martial Arts DVDs alone as a training tool are should just stick with that and keep increasing your martial awesomeness.

    I'll keep training in a dojo with the delusion is best for me.
    You keep on the right path and keep hitting play, rewind and fast forward during your training sessions.

  10. Kagete

    Kagete Banned Banned

    Why do you lie to me, Jeebs? I hate it when you lie.

    I just gave an example of something integral to understanding Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, one that you don't comprehend, and thus aren't in a position to argue over whether or not video can help you with.
  11. boards

    boards Its all in the reflexes!

    Kuroshinobi - while it is true that it is just peoples opinions that you cant learn bujikan from a video, it is an opinion based upon experience. When looking at opinions, the smart thing to look for is opinions from people with relevant experience. In this case it is the people that actually do Bujinkan that have the relevant experience. You dont seem to have any experience in this art so your opinion is less relevant.
  12. CKava

    CKava Just one more thing... Supporter

    I'm inclined to keep all this confined to one thread. If kuro drags threads off topic or posts simply to cause arguments then action will be taken but he is allowed to be silly and wrong if he wants.

    And Kuro... if you are claiming to have learnt grappling from DVD's and taken on semi-pro MMA fighters and done very well your claims are ridiculous.

    Being athletic and strong can certainly help in martial arts but claiming to be able to grapple and do very well with semi-pro MMA fighters without any actual grappling experience means A) you were grappling with MMA fighters with very poor grappling skills, B) you are exaggerating or C) you are making it up. I'm inclined to go with B.
  13. Hissatsu

    Hissatsu End of the Road: Moved On

    It isn't that. We are now spending pages upon pages dealing with the intellectual equivalent of "you can't *prove* it isn't time stopping invisible pink unicorns".

    This isn't discussion for the better of people. This is discussion to feed a psychological condition / problem.

  14. CKava

    CKava Just one more thing... Supporter

    Avoid the discussion?
  15. adouglasmhor

    adouglasmhor Not an Objectivist

    So should we believe him or a video taught guy on an internet forum calling himself "black ninja".

    I vote for the boss myself, like I have a choice :cool:
  16. adouglasmhor

    adouglasmhor Not an Objectivist

    Sometimes people say something to encourage someone, sometimes they say it to humour them or avoid hurting them if they are special and sometimes just to get rid.

    I am sure your crappling and flailing really let you hold your own against MMA dudes with training and experience. I am sure if they were on there way into pro they will have rankings on sherdog you can link to and I will be left with egg on my face for doubting you?
  17. Hissatsu

    Hissatsu End of the Road: Moved On

    Sure thing. Will do. I'm done in the godan thread then - enjoy talking it over with Kuro. If you have any other questions - let him know.

  18. Fu_Bag

    Fu_Bag Valued Member

    I think that any video has some sort of value. You can learn quite a bit about the Bujinkan from videos. The spectrum ranges from YouTube to DVD Blackbelt courses, to Hatsumi-sensei's videos. All of the videos teach you something.....

    My feelings on the videos (produced by Hatsumi-sensei) is that they can open a student's eyes with regards to whether or not someone is BS'ing them. If they're at a dojo where nobody's body movement looks anything like what Hatsumi-sensei is doing, then the videos become very valuable as a quality control mechanism for students seeking quality Bujinkan instruction.

    They also have value as "idea generators". Some good concepts the videos stress is to let go of pre-conceived notions, don't let yourself be drug into someone elses fight (with their rules), keep moving, don't quit, survive, and that its okay to look like an idiot as long as you're learning and moving forward in life.

    As far as learning any actual system goes, there's no way I'd be willing to bet my loved ones' lives on the idea that a dvd player is a good substitute for an actual instructor.

    Any good self-defense/martial arts instructor should eventually be able to help a student get past their fear or hesitation to "step in". It'd be kinda hard for a dvd player to pressure test you since all you have to do is to hit the power button and laugh victoriously. Try doing that with an actual instructor.

    My best guesstimate is that the videos that Hatsumi-sensei produces are meant as more of an inspiration for advanced students to continue their training and to remember the actual training sessions they endured with their instructors.

    As far as being S.O.L., and having to rely only on videos goes, if the purpose of beginning level training is to condition the body for natural movement, maybe dedicating time and energy to studying Feldenkrais and Yoga would be more productive than creating bad habits while trying to reproduce movements contained on Bujinkan videos? Neither movement system should ingrain punching or kicking habits into a prospective student that would then have to be unlearned once they could join a good dojo. Just a thought and its worth what you paid for it. :)

    At any rate, the videos, people trying to learn from videos, rank, katas, and any and all other sillyness that people complain about, I believe that it all has value when it comes to trying to learn something about the Bujinkan.

    I saw a special about Simon Cowell the other night. During an interview, he said that when he came crashing down from having everything, losing everything wasn't really all that bad. He said it was like shedding a skin made up of things that he thought meant everything when, really, it all meant nothing. Maybe Simon Cowell knows something about the Bujinkan? Shortly after his major failure, American Idol happened. Kinda cool.
  19. stephenk

    stephenk Valued Member

    Great post!
  20. Kagete

    Kagete Banned Banned

    No one moves like he does nowadays. However, if you're suggesting that people compare their instructor with the old Quest videos, then perhaps...

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