Yielding (Yang style)

Discussion in 'Tai chi' started by goldenmonkey, May 7, 2012.

  1. goldenmonkey

    goldenmonkey New Member

    Hello everyone,

    I'd first like to encourage any criticism, advice, ideas, and or funny schisms that anybody would like to add to any of my possibly uninteresting commentary on yielding. It may be a short one.

    So, yielding. First off, what the hell is yielding? Well, to my detriment, my elementary understanding of what Taiji really is and the idea of using no muscular force (as the venerable Cheng Man Ching so eagerly asked of his students) seems outright unsuitable to real world situations. However, whether elementary or not, through regular tui shou and san shou practice, we can truly see the valuable insight yielding can provide to our lives. But lets narrow this down just a tad, and bring it only into the martial/self defense aspects of yielding and thusly into the idea of using your opponents/enemies force against them.

    The idea of yielding has it's roots in moving softly into force, if used correctly. What is "moving softly into force", though? Well, what do you do when you're about to get a knuckle sandwich? You cringe, you squeeze, you tighten, you close your eyes, and possibly whine like a baby afterwards.

    "A feather cannot be placed;
    A fly annot alight;"

    Cultivating softness is cultivating the ability to yield, and cultivating this leads to the cultivation of taiji. When properly yielding, you move into the punch, you move inward as they move inward, you step out as they step out.
  2. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    Yielding, simple means not fighting force with force.

  3. El Medico

    El Medico Valued Member

    Cheng's student Ben lo once said something along the lines that it's not that TC people don't use strength,they just use a smaller percentage of their strength than most other folks.

    If you move you're using muscular force.It's how you use it.Efficiently,just what you need for the task at hand? Or using too much in an inappropriate manner which will be an impediment? Teachers stress no muscular force else people have a tendency to just shove each other around and what not,tense up,etc.It's a natural reaction early on for most people in that setting.

    When properly yielding you can move into the punch,or not.It's a tactical choice.

    If they step out you should stick to them if possible.Or is that what you meant by stepping out when they do?
  4. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    Yielding is timing + sensitivity in response to an opponents incoming force.

    Jumping back from an incoming punch is not yielding. Yielding is 'just enough effort expended to draw in the opponent before you destroy his structure' Not doing too much, and not doing too little.
  5. Taiji_Lou

    Taiji_Lou Banned Banned

    proper use of rollback form :cool:
  6. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    Roll Back/Lu Jin is definately a prime example of yielding. I would also include "Jade Lady Threads Shuttle", for it's merging of yielding and countering, amongst others.

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umjoWi7ZHe4"]application of Lu - YouTube[/ame]
  7. Johnno

    Johnno Valued Member

    My take on the subject (and I'd be more than happy if more experienced practitioners correct any misconceptions of mine, BTW):

    If we oppose force with force, then the stronger wins. If we yield to force and divert it into emptiness (i.e. away from us where it can't hurt us) then it runs out of energy and the opponent is vulnerable to counter attack. They will be easier to off-balance.

    This is a fundamental principle in many martial arts, although the way it is applied is subtly different from one art to another.
  8. Taiji_Lou

    Taiji_Lou Banned Banned


    clip made me happy
  9. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    Last edited: May 22, 2012
  10. YouKnowWho

    YouKnowWho Valued Member

    This clip is a good example that you can see perfect arm control but you don't see the leg control. You borrow your opponent's incoming force, yield, pull, and lead him into the emptiness. That's good but it's just not good enough. If you use your leg to attack your opponent's leading leg at that time (2 contact points instead of 1 contact point), you will get much better combat result. Why don't Taiji guys apply their leg movement such as block, sweep, hook, cut. spring. twist. lift. ..., I truly don't know.

    In the following clip, if you use your right foot to block your oppponent's right knee, your opponent will fall right infront of you. Why do you want to give your opponent's legs that much freedom?

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umjoWi7ZHe4"]application of Lu - YouTube[/ame]
    Last edited: May 22, 2012
  11. Robinhood

    Robinhood Banned Banned

    Why do you try to insinuate that one persons movement represents everyone's
    technique ?

    It is just the level of the practitioner that dictates his application.

    Styles are just tools to learn how to apply yourself, unless your doing sport MA, which is dictated more by rule allowances.


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