Wu Shu Kwan - Reputable?

(side note to begin - i have searched the forums and read up a few bits and pieces, though everything i came across was very old)

i currently train MA two nights a week, and was looking to find something else to train in my free time. with work its been kind of awkward...

anyway, i found a place that runs classes in various locations and various times that could suit me, which seems handy enough.

you can probably guess from the title what that place is; wu shu kwan

now i said i have read some bits and pieces on the forum, i was just wondering if there was any more up to date information on these guys? everything i found was from around 07 or earlier...

any information is handy, the more information i take in should help me get an idea as to their credibilty, and possible mcdojo-ness, and weather or not i should bother looking further into training there or not.

so yeah, any up to date info/opinion on this group?

 

Here's a mid sized thread from last year
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80360&highlight=wushu+kwan

 

thanks for that.

from that post, you seem to be the only one with knowledge relating to actual practise of it (or there abouts)

is it something you are familiar with?

 

Not really, I've just been around for a while and have that kind of memory.

 

ok, there go my hopes of finding your first hand opinion on it then :bang:

thanks for the info anyway.

i may have have to head down and take a look around and check out the classes

 

Hiya, i actually joined a wushu kwan gym but only stayed for a couple of months.I was actually after a kickboxing club and thought the sparring at wushu might be a decent substitute given the lack of any kickboxing in my area.However the sparring was a very very small part of the session (like 10 minutes perhaps from a 2 hour class).The class consisted of about half an hour of stretching,then 45 mins or so of line work ,with most of the rest of the class being katas.occasionally you would do some work with the pads as well.I havent much experience of traditional stand-up arts ,but the line work and forms seemed very similar to the karate stuff i did as a kid.
I managed to find an MMA club just outside my town and that was the kiss of death for wushu kwan as i couldnt go back to line work after that ,as it wasnt really my cup of tea.
hope this helped a little.

 

I popped along to a wu shu kwan class many years ago to check it out, and to be honest it was pretty good.
There is a strong TKD influence which is weird in a "Chinese kickboxing" style, but the training was honest and pretty tough.
IMHO.....
Better than a TKD class, as the forms looked pretty good and had alot more content, much more like kung fu forms.
Not so good if you want pure traditional Kung Fu, but then what is that really anyway????

Give it a go if you like as they are not in it just for the cash and do teach some good stuff.
I saw quite alot of bag work and also staff forms, kickboxing style sparring too, so a good allround mix.

 

i did this style for 3 1/2 yrs from 94-98 got my 1st dan in it before leaving. this is my opinion - and i stress my opinion only.

Bad points:

the style has a lot of factors i have come to expect from a mcdojo/bullshido - its very sectative - dosent like you filming the forms they do, they dont let you train in other styles (this will be a problem for you if it has not changed - and the reason i left), the membership cost was £40 for a yr 10 yrs back - bit steep in my expirience, uniforms have to be purchased from them, to get your second dan you have to open a class (i was 17 1/2 and getting vigurosly persuaded to open one when i felt unready - another reason i left)...

Good part: very very intensive training, they demand quality - you have to earn your belts you are not given them, you will gain felxibility and good kicking skills, for all the complaints i listed above there it is a good style - the only drawback i found on the training itself is a lot of instructors will not know the application of the forms you parctice - but the forms are ignored when it comes to sparing its just like any freestyle kickboxing contest - smack the hell out of each other with fist, feet and kneees..10 yrs on i still have not decided if this is a good or bad point - good your not encourage to do unpractical moves in combat, bad - why do them at all if you dont learn to apply them....


in conclusion - if you can ignore the bad point and dont have high expectations its a fun style to practice - i did try to restart back in 05 - but i went to my old club who instantly wanted me to restart as a black belt...after a 7 yr gap...that preassure and the fact he was hinting i should drop wing chun which is what i was doing at the time reminded me of why i left in the first place, so like i said a fun and intense style - with in my eyes some insumountable drawbacks to it which is a shame as i would like to do it again

 

i dont get the point in not allowing anything to be filmed.. seems pretty ancient like an old cheesy kung fu film with secret scrolls behind locked doors..

as for them not letting you train in other styles, thats ********. i would seriously hope they dont still have that idea..

and if you cannot progress through the ranks without starting your own class, it seems more like a forced franchise system instead of a martial arts system, odd

its good the training is intense and that there are standards, otherwise its useless... (and not 'reputable' like i was asking in the first place)

-- with forms and certain moves that are learnt anywhere, they are not always applied, i know what you mean about it turning into freestyle kickboxing... it could probably be said of anywhere though --

i wont have the issue of having to resume at a certain level seeing as i havent done it before, and if they try to get me to stop training elsewhere, they will get a swift reply in the region of "no"

i think from the good points you made i am more interested in going to check out a class.

cheers, i'll see when i can pop down and let you know what i think

 

A late response from an oldie, to clear up a few issues. Wu Shu Kwan was formed in London back in the late Sixties. The founder was C. K. Chang. The original venue was in the South Korean Embassy in London.

The style was predominantly TKD with some Chinese kung fu additions. Chang had trained the South Korean military and had adapted TKD, as it is primarily a long range fighting style with a lot of kicks. The kung fu elements added some close range techniques.

I think he named the school Wu Shu Kwan to differentiate it (and Bruce Lee was introducing kung fu to the world at the time). The training was hard and vigorous. Sparring was semi-full contact without any pads. The premise being you’ll block a blow if you know it’s going to hurt!

I trained with Chang for a number of years, earning my black belt in 1974 in a very arduous grading. I left England and later studied Wing Chun and also Yang style Tai Chi Chuan.

I hope this gives some historical background.

 

My wife and I are familiar with Wushu (one word), what exactly it entails is dependent on the sensei, some teach it for fighting, and some for competition. Many Wushu forms are apart of other forms, just as Kung Fu. Wushu is great for many things, just as many other forms, the largest benefit is how it teaches you to move smoothly and gracefully, and that smooth and grace will give you better speed and force.

 

Wu Shu,Guo Shu,Gung Fu-all generic terms for Chinese martial systems. What is being discussed here is a specific system using the term/name in the system's-rather than the school or organization- name. Can lead to confusion.


Many people nowadays equate "Wu Shu" with modern PRC created Wu Shu- intentionally created as a performance art unconcerned with function.

Didn't understand this,could you clarify?

Welcome to MAP!

 

Wushu is Kung Fu, another form of Kung Fu. You will see many similarities between Kung Fu and Wushu, just as you would see with Wing Chun. You will find that many Sensei's will make slight changes in the form that they teach, and you will find that some refinements are great, and some, not so much lol.

 

Unless you are speaking of PRC modern Wu Shu or some other system such as Wu Shu Kwan naming the system itself "Wu Shu" Wu Shu is not another form of Gung Fu. Refer to previous post.

Some things in your postings lead me to think what you're speaking of when you mention Wu Shu is the PRC modern Wu Shu. If I'm incorrect please advise.

 

The Wushu I am speaking of is one word, and it is another form of Kung Fu. You will see many techniques or styles of movement very similar to Kung Fu, The hand movements, positioning, and method of flow. Check out Wushu on youtube, the ones that are more of a dance and have music, you will see many similar things to Wing Chun as well. When I speak of martial arts, I rarely speak of modern, I am old folgy lol. As far as Wushu being a performing art, yes it is, but it is a performing art for the much more advanced students. It is only when you can have grace and smoothness in your moves that you have mastered it. When you watch them move, think of it at as much faster form in a fight. When you can move smooth and gracefully liker that, that is when you achieve the upmost, speed accuracy, and power behind your moves. Those woman performing art, they can drop a full size man with a wave of their hand, and yes, I know this for a fact!

 

The term Wushu is actually a more accurate term that means “martial arts”. The term kung fu simply means to have skill derived from hard work. It is not a term that specifically means martial arts, although one can have good kung fu in your wushu, or good kung fu as a chef, or good kung fu as a cabinet maker, etc. The term simply means that one has studied and worked hard to gain skill in that field.

the term was misunderstood as the West became more acquainted with China, and has simply become accepted as a term meaning the fighting methods of China, in spite of the error.

In the 1950s the government of China created “Modern Wushu” as a derivative of the older fighting methods, and designed it to be an athletic endeavor, a competition method, and a cultural performance art. It was specifically and deliberately distanced from the functional fighting methods of the past, with alterations made for aesthetic purposes that often resulted in a diminishing of its martial functionality. To be clear, Modern Wushu athletes can be tremendously impressive as athletes, but what they train and perform is not intended to be a functional combat method. In the early days of Modern Wushu it was close enough to the older fighting methods that it still had some functionality, but as the years have moved on and it has adopted more extreme ideas for the sake of performance, it’s functionality as a fighting method has diminished further.

One can refer to the older fighting methods as wushu, or “traditional Wushu” to distinguish it from Modern Wushu. But custom in the West tends to still use the term kung fu. When people hear the term wushu, it is usually assumed to refer to Modern Wushu unless specified that it is traditional wushu being discussed.

a group adapting the term wushu into their name, if not practitioners of Modern Wushu, simply adds complication and often requires some clarification in discussion.

i hope this helps.

 

So that you are aware, I am 57 years old, I learned martial arts the old Asian way, what you call modern Wushu and has no practical fighting skill, I learned the old way that has great fighting skill. I realize that today, people see, read, and taught things differently from my days, but always keep in mind that just because things are different today, that things from the past are no good. There are reasons for changes, but not all of them are good reasons, you will find many things in life that fit this example. I do not mind being corrected, however, do not trust what you hear from someone, read, or is taught as the gospel truth. I ask you not to even trust my words as the gospel truth, just examine, analyze, or try it out to see for yourself. I can make claims of what "I KNOW FOR A FACT", but I am not that type of person, and I want the person to seek for the answer so they know it for a fact.

 

It's written as one word depending on which Romanization method one uses.That's all.

I've seen a bit,on film and in person.One of my instructors had been a professional Wu Shu coach in Beijing/Peking. What's WC got to do with anything?

It was created in the 1950s by the PRC-so I just refer to it as "modern" to differentiate from so called "traditional" Wu Shu.

It was purposefully designed as a physical education and performing art.Aside from the basic training the forms are designed as performing art -as evidenced from particulars in the way they are performed which would be anathema to functional training-such as sticking one's chin up. Whether one is advanced or no has no bearing on what it was designed and created for. It was not designed for nor comes with a body of teachings for functional combat. At least according to what the PRC stated about its development/purpose.

One is never going to achieve utmost power just doing forms and throwing strikes in the air. An individual practicing only that sort of training whether "modern" or "traditional" Wu Shu won't hit as hard as a teenage amateur boxer.

Only if they've done other training-assuming the person they're up against is someone in shape and with actual combative training experience. PRC Wu Shu requires impressive athleticism but that alone doesn't guarantee significant power nor victory in unrehearsed violence whether in the training hall or the real world. I've seen and known people who practiced modern Wu Shu. The only ones I know of who have significant power or combat skills were those with other practices outside the PRC Wu Shu curriculum. When people in great shape who can perform quite impressive physical feats ala their form performances have to be taught how to penetrate a target when striking it....doesn't exactly exhibit that the method teaches expressing power-except in the air.(Seen this in every WS only practitioner I've ever met/observed). But it was never supposed to. Practicing weaponry with objects weighing as much as a toothpick doesn't teach actual usage-and it wasn't suppose to.

It is what it is-which is fine.It's truly a martial art,but not a fighting system. If you don't know it's history,including the purpose and the physical design of it you can look it up.It's no secret.

EDIT-I wrote this while the 2 previous posts were being posted.I'll have to catch up on those later.

 

I’m not sure I understand what message you are trying to make with this post. For what it’s worth, I am 51 (as of yesterday) so I’m not far behind you, and I began my training in 1984. My first Sifu is also a coach of Modern Wushu, having trained with and received his coaching credential from the Beijing team (he knew Jet Li when Jet was a teenager). This is the source of my information.

 

Lol, I am 57 years old, I know of Wushu history, origin and so-on. I was taught martial arts the old Asian way, not today's American way, I got smacked when I did something wrong. I was taught that Wushu IS a martial arts form. Consider this, watch one of those graceful performances, think about how that graceful movement at full speed can increase or help the speed, accuracy, and force behind a movement. If you can not see it, then try practicing it with just one arm, when you can feel the movement of your arm, hand and body moving gracefully, then try throwing a punch with that movement, and see the difference. We all have our own opinion from what we read, see, or told, but do not base an opinion on just that, base it on personal opinion from actually trying it. Know, you may still keep your opinion, that is fine, maybe you need to completely learn Wushu to get a proper evaluation, or you just simply disagree. I am not telling you that you are wrong, I am just saying that I am not wrong because of 40 some odd years of experience, but I do not want you to make your decision on those basis. I want you to make a decision on what you know for a fact, what you have personally seen and learned. Further, be careful when you tell someone that they are wrong lol.