Discuss... For further reference: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30wOEPTZfWo"]awesome taekwondo - YouTube[/ame] [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTBU71q5l4k"]YouTube[/ame] Dont be hatin'
Am I the only person who thinks WTF competition would be much easier on the eye with more hand techniques? I know you can punch to the hogu, but I dunno... It's a sport and it's fine as that - and there are some amazing kicks in there - but... I dunno...
Am I the only person that doesn't think "World Taekwondo Federation" when I see WTF on the internets??
Give me a break - I'm ITF! I just think proper boxing gloves and punches to the head would change the dynamics in an interesting way and push WTF into an interesting new era... Or something... I dunno - it doesn't look right when nobody ever uses their hands, it makes it look too much like a sport rather than a fighting system.
lol... i think the original definition of WTF!??! suits it better.... when people charge in with their guard down... what do they expect but to eat a kick. lol.
If a high guard helped you win, people would do it. I think the real issue is that a high guard exposes your sides (particularly around the kidneys) to lots and lots of peppering kicks, which mean lots and lots of lost points. You would lose a lot more points with a boxing guard than you would prevent, even if that means that once every long long while there's a spectacular KO (note: these rare-though-spectacular KOs constitute 85% of YouTube WTF TKD videos). Competition fuels tactics that win under a certain rule set. If a Kyokushin or boxing guard helped you win under the WTF TKD ruleset, you'd see Olympic medalists doing it. I'm sure they've all thought of it before and weighed the positives and negatives.
I have serious issues with the WTF. As a few others have mentioned, it is a SPORT. And if that's what you're going for--to participate in a sport--then it's all good. But it's only moderately better for self-defense--or even for competing in a full contact combat sport like kickboxing or MMA--than basketball, rugby, or lacrosse is. Of course, that last statement deserves some clarification, as some WTF practitioners undoubtedly know how to adapt their style to real fighting, but it's the simple truth that most WTF Taekwondo guys just aren't very good fighters.
Anyone else have a feeling of deja vu? Here's a stickied, twenty-seven-page thread asking about Tae Kwon Do's effectiveness in Teh D34dly str33t LOL OMG: http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10417 As for WTF taekwondo being a sport...that's the funny thing about the Olympic Games. Every single thing you see in it--yes, including boxing and winter biathlon*--IS A SPORT. It should be self-evident. * Winter biathlon is probably the most "martial" of all the sports in the Olympics. If you don't believe me, research the use of ski infantry during WWII.
True, though I'd say the western style boxing, as well as the judo are more easily translatable for DA ZTREET.
Hi All There seems to be some misguided loyalty and logic here. What you train is what you get and if anyone is foolish enough not to protect their computer centre (brain) then they are not training in a martial art at all, but rather a poorly represented attempt at a martial sport. Even as a sport, if the maximum points are for a head kick, then why not protect the head...even to reduce the amount of points scored against you. Simply put...no logic and no combat value at all. With respect Peter
Based mostly on the fact that WTF TKD vs muay thai/kickboxing matches typically don't fare well for the WTF guy. ITF TKD guys usually do better for obvious reasons. But if you want more proof than that, I can't say that I have an exhaustive list of case studies or statistics at hand. Do you disagree?
Every single WTF Olympic athlete, the one's whose training puts many MMA competitors to shame with its intensity, must be slapping their foreheads right about now at this sudden realisation! Or maybe, just maybe, the people who dedicate their entire lives for years on end to represent their country at the highest possible level, actually have a better understanding of what works under their rueset than you The way Olympic WTF guys spar is the best way to win under Olympic WTF rules. Simples. Mitch Combat value? Not a lot IMO no, but then Olympic sparring doesn't claim it.
I'm not especially taken with taekwondo because as a karate guy it just seems like "doing it wrong" to me, but I disagree with stating that "most of those guys can't fight" as I think it's a sweeping generalisation that would be very difficult to prove. I've got no problem with saying that I don't like a certain art or its competition rules, but to say that it leaves people unable to fight seems a step too far. Being able to beat a thai boxer might be sufficient to prove you can fight, but I would argue that it's not necessary.
Well I tried to give myself an out by saying that obviously there are exceptions and some WTF practitioners train in a way to give themselves the proper skills for more serious combat scenarios. But you're right in that I'm speaking generally and I also meant in regard to the fighting community as a whole. I think it's pretty much indisputable at this point that the muay thai ruleset (i.e. full contact, with all reasonable weapons allowed) is the premiere way of testing striking skills. One of the problems with the WTF rule set is that they're so limited. They are so limited, in fact, that only a single weapon--kicks--are really even viable. So, as a rule, WTF guys have poor hand skills, are not used to taking kicks to the legs, and don't know what to do with knees or elbows in a fight. ITF is better in that the rules are not so restrictive. They're allowed to punch to the face so they usually have better hands. They're also more used to defending against a wider range of attacks. But the situation even with the ITF leaves something to be desired, because leg kicks, knees and elbows are still not allowed. (Though I've heard that many ITF schools allow these techniques during open sparring in the dojang. Not sure if that's the case for very many WTF schools.) Lastly, I'd like to address the issue of clinch fighting. At one point or another, virtually all fights will end up in some sort of clinch at some point in time. The rules against grabbing and holding in TKD don't address this reality . . . which is in fact out of touch with reality. Personally, I think that TKD can be quite effective, if trained right, because all the techniques are taught. Usually if someone throws an elbow then people say they're "doing muay thai." Not true! Knees and elbows are certainly taught in TKD. But you have to train in a way that brings these techniques into play. Bottom line, train to fight and you will learn to fight. And that means heavy sparring with limited rules.
