WTF president considering making TKD more like UFC

In a LOT of Olympic judo, the "throw" involves the throwER going down to the ground more aggressively than the throwEE, the latter really just being dragged down to the ground by their gi. In that judo video, how many points are awarded for "throws" that are really just dragging someone to the ground? A lot. That's not any more injurious than an axe kick with no power behind it, like the one you keep mentioning from round one of the men's heavyweight gold. A similar action COULD be injurious (a full-force axe kick or hook kick or a full-force throw), but the actual action that the athlete is using to score, particularly in the early rounds of a competition, generally isn't.

 

Indeed...I hate that. It's not combative in nature.
I'd only give an ippon for a throw that left the thrower still standing.
I think sombo gives more points for a throw of that nature IIRC?
Or have a look at how they land in realtion to each other to determine how effective it was.
If you land in a good position you get an ippon?
Judo people often seem to give up the throw as soon as they know they've thrown. Rather than following it to the ground and then seeing if it scored well.

 

Sounds to me like your biggest concern is the Olympics-ification of any martial art (where participants focus solely on satisfying the scoring criteria instead of "maintaining the original martial feel," etc) more than any specific problem with Olympic TKD's current rule-set. And that's fine, I'm not trying to talk you into liking watching the Olympics if it's not your cup of tea.

But I think "what do the Olympics do to martial sports (from TKD to judo to fencing)" is a very, very different question from "what can Olympic TKD do to make itself a better Olympic sport." I think why you and I aren't seeing eye-to-eye is because you're focused on the former and I'm focused on the latter.

 

Yeah for sure. If something's a combat sport I need to see something combatively relevent.
But wouldn't TKD be a better olympic sport of they were really whacking each other?
Something even an outsider could understand?

 

It's not that simple. Replacing Olympic TKD's objective scoring criteria and protective gear with "really whacking each other" (in a sport primarily built around kicking your opponent) is going to result in one of two things:

(1) injury and blood-letting rates comparable to MMA and Muay Thai, which is inconsistent with the Olympics approach to sport (emphasis on low injuries and no blood); and/or

(2) subjectivity and favoritism in judging (think Machida v. Rua I, or any Kyokushin bout that doesn't end in knockout), which is inconsistent with the Olympics' emphasis on objective judging (the same emphasis that resulted in electronic fencing gear).

On the other hand, if you maintain objective scoring criteria, Olympians are going to exploit those rules to the max. That's simply the nature of amateur sport (where winning is the sole goal instead of selling tickets or attracting sponsors). Whatever the rules are, anyone who wants to win at the Olympics (or even make it to the Olympics) is going to exploit those rules to the maximum, not just "come out and put on a good fight for the crowd." The difference is, I look at pushing the ruleset of a sport to the limits as "tactical sport competition" and you look at it as corruption of the history of the art. It's all a matter of perspective.

 

ufc is a sport. taekwondo do is an art form

 

Anything in the Olympics is a sport. Olympic taekwondo is in the Olympics. Thus...

Also, since when is this a one-or-the-other issue? "Art" and "sport" are a venn diagram, not a binary choice.

 

TKD started out in the SK Military as a Korean Martial Art under Gen. Choi's leadership & vision.
Olympic TKD started out as TAE SOO DO as a sport with new rules that would make it different from karate, hence more Korean. The 2nd generation leaders focused on its development as a sport. When Dr. Kim Un Yong came on board (1971) as the 6th president of the KTA, he made it clear that his vision was:
1) Make TKD the Korean National Sport - Got the calligraphy from Gen. Park 1971, Gen. Choi got it from the 1st president in 1955

2) Make TKD an international sport - finished the KKW, which Gen. Choi wanted, but couldn't get done, that the 5th KTA president Kim Yong Chae started, who the "Modern History of TKD" says he felt left of of history, but his accomplishments/contributions were great. Dr. Kim also founded the WTF in May 1973, ITF formed 1966!

3) make it an Olympic Sport

He succeeded, so please understand WTF TKD is a sport. The KKW is the ma org & the ITF is a ma org. MAs can have a sport component. Both Chang Hon (ITF) & Kukki TKD have sports components. However what your individual TKD school emphasizes & what your own personal focus is on, will determine what TKD is or how you are training it.

The WTF is on the verge of allowing ITF access to the Olympics. So maybe they will have even more focus on sport, which IMHO will hurt the ma side.