Would You Keep the Belts

If you can't articulate it, its not been thought out, so its not reason, but emotion.



Theres very good reasons to not have belts, but also since bjj is the one belted art who's standards are rising, change may very well be damaging to its structure.

I'd be genuinely interested to hear you thought out rational for changing the system

But in the end belts are just labels, and it seems like you would just replace them with other labels such as basic, advanced, level 2 etc so really what would be the point?

 

Sambo in Eastern European country's does have a grading system of sorts but without any physical change to the Uniform to represent it, I'm not entirely sure how it works, its a good question I might put it to my coach the next time I see him.

 

Just for perspective, I have a lot of experience for my belt, but so do others here and all of our perspectives are equally valid.

 

Is that because the blues are graded wrongly, or is it attributes, or something else?

 

Is it the grade, or the physical change of uniform you think should change?

 

I think a mix, as I mentioned earlier Blue is a wide band, and Elite blues can be Olympic level Judoka, or Collegiate Wrestlers, so they can bring a lot skills and attributes to the tables.

Blackbelts can be older, slower, less aggressive, yet still have the skills of a Blackbelt.

 

yeah I dont really think there should be a grading system in less we are talking about a competitive one based on a competitive record like boxing or wrestling, it just doesn't seem like a great indicator of skill like you and Matt are saying and just the concept when you really think about it there's something childish about it. Also when talking to someone not familiar with the art if you mention a coloured belt grading system they think of "traditional martial arts" and frankly if we are being honest whether you think its deserved or not there is a stigma and a level of embarrassment that comes with TMA in the general public's mind.

EDIT: because we are so used to bogus claims and nonsense in martial arts its become a pop culture trope, not because all martial arts are inherently bad that could be described as traditional.

 

I was talking with one of our comp guys the other day about competing in NAGA (the link I put in earlier) with their system I would Elite, so I would be going up against people like Roger Gracie in my first comp like this, and there are a lot of people who approach these tournaments as a profession, and would have no qualms about doing a Paul Harris to your knee to net the $1K prize money (in fact it might from him himself if I was to drop from 185lb to 170lb..)

I've a bit of 5 years experience as a Blue, and I would be ripped apart.

Some sort of grading/ranking/structure between that and the current BJJ one would be helpful for people like me who want to 'have a go' but don't want to lose a knee.

 

I'm not saying its not an indicator of skill, I'm saying its a minimum indicator of depth and width of skill, you don't get many poor bjj blackbelts, but you do get lots of really really good blues and above.

However at least in the schools I've trained belts are given for technical ability under pressure compared to your age and size. So a 100kg guy who benches his way out of side control won't be getting his blue no matter who he taps, until he has a bluebelt technical approach to escapes.

Does that make sense?

 

From my experience, that guy could get a blue under certain teachers, in fact some people who are just beasts who are at purple when they have the technique of a 1 year white, sometimes when they are too dangerous they need to be moved up to keep the status quo of the class. Doesn't happen in my class specifically, but I have faced people like that.

 

I'm interested to know why you would like to see the coloured belt system die a death ?

 

Personally I would count that as a bad teacher using a bad grading criteria.

 

Because I find it a ridiculous notion that coloured bits of fabric do anything to show a quality of MAist in the slightest personally.

The fact that "X" wears a black belt (let's go for the standard example) means nothing to me other than X stayed (presumably) with one dojo/organisation long enough and paid their fees enough and passed whatever tests set at whatever criteria there were (if any) to wear a different coloured bit of fabric round their waist.

It does nothing to demonstrate the kind of effort, intensity or honesty you put into your training, nor does it mean you are any better a person than the kid wearing a white belt who just started but gives it their all. Nor does it prove that you can use your techniques under pressure or anything similar.

 

a bjj blackbelt is no different to a PhD

 

But BJJ belts do do those things. I think BJJ is one of the few examples of the belt system working well.

 

Maybe, but I'm not sure how true that actually is. When you go for a BJJ black belt, do you do it in front of a certified board of individuals, or is it when your instructor decides you are worth it? Anything else I'm missing?

But as far as I can tell it also proves little other than you've been there long enough and passed the criteria needed to wear a bb from one club. That's it.

The thing is, that BJJ black belt would be just as technically good and have just as deep an understanding of their art if they'd competed and never had a day in their life worn any belt at all IMO. It's the honesty and effort they put into their training that matters to me, not how many lovely accolades they've been given.

EDIT:

No disrepect to BJJers intended in the slightest, got massive respect for anyone who trains like they do.

But realistically, is your average BJJer any better for wearing a coloured bit of fabric round their waist at all? Do their techniques somehow improve for wearing it? For me (and this is just my view), that's about as awesome as saying that if I wear lucky pants, I'll do well when I kickbox. :shrug:

 

more or less yes, but that could be down to the art starting out with strong principles, however, over time it may well degrade like the others. There is a heavy emphasis on money in BJJ and that is not a good thing for honest ranks.

 

BJJ black belts dont get them for training time. you get it for skills displayed during rolls.

so any academic without a PhD...
theyd still be smart and well published just with no degree
and people wanting to collaborate may not understand where their speciality lies at first glance because they lack credentials.

levels are always a good thing.

i think coral belts need to be brought back

 

scenario rid of belts:

how would we determine competition brackets?
would we go the no-gi way of time spent training?
(yes we have brackets because there are 100's of competitors that turn up to comps)

well thats doesnt work because say we have two people - dan and mark
mark trains 6 days a week for 2 years
dan trains 2 days a week for 2 years

the competition brackets are:
less than 1 year experience
2 years experience
2 to 5 years experience
5 plus years experience

both dan and mark would enter the 2 years experience bracket but mark would win cos he has more mat time

and now lets say that mark is also a very fast learner, he has picked up skills fit for a person of 5 years experience... he should be in the 5 years bracket but organisers just assume time correlates to skill directly so instead he is in the 2 year bracket.

both dan and mark are real people i know and have trained with and that is an actual competition that happened.


Scenario for coaching:
how will clubs hire coaches?
say some blackbelt is bad at competitions (injuries, age. doesnt roid, not a competitive person etc) but is very good at bjj and can explain skills much better than blackbelt bjj competitors because he has "gone through the struggle" e.g. bjj never clicked immediately for him because he wasnt naturally athletic.

how would we know this person is a good coach without a formal ranking.
maybe we should bring back the coral belt?

 

No, but they have a better understanding of who else is around their level, and a more competitive roll. The disparity level of two people in an average gym with blue belts can range of course, so the stripes help. Even so, I am expected to be able to hang with all the blue belts at my club and look like I am at that level.

A Black belt in BJJ is also very different from other arts. It comes from skill level alone, and not "Time served" as you put.