Workout for a 15 year old martial arts legend wannabee!

Discussion in 'Health and Fitness' started by taekwonguy, Aug 9, 2006.

  1. taekwonguy

    taekwonguy Very Valued Member :)

    ok, well I really really would love to look like Bruce Lee but people have been saying its impossible. How is my workout? It is full body and on Wednesday and Sunday I can go to the gym and do it with some proper weights
     
  2. Reakt

    Reakt Valued Member

    I guess it was right

    I also must clarify, each one of my rep's is 5-10 seconds, not 30. Don't twist words.

    Two heavy workout sessions per day is possibly the worst thing you can do. After the AM workout your Muscles will enter a state of repair and growth, 8 hours later and nothing has changed. You doing another Weightlifting session at that time would stress the muscles at the early stages of Myofibril repair which would in a way cancel out the workout done earlier on in the day and reduce muscle building efficiency. Training with repairing and tired muscles also reduces what you can lift in a Gym session by a large amount.

    I know for one with the way I do my workouts I couldn't lift another weight for at least an entire day.

    You need the longest break possible inbetween sessions, the more Muscle repair and growth, the better. So this means you have to space out your sessions in the week, Monday and Thursday, Tuesday and Friday, Wednesday and Saturday etc etc.

    If I were to suggest a workout...

    Each session I would advise 5x5 or 5x6, whichever you prefer, you could go higher if you want more endurance and flexibility. Remember choose a weight so you will be at the point of near failure on the final rep of each set.

    Bench Press
    Dips
    Dumbell Bicep Curls
    Lateral Raises
    Upright Row
    Deadlifts
    Seated Rows
    Back Hyperextensions
    Squats

    You can also throw in some Pecdec flyes, Tricep pulldowns or whatever else if you want. If you feel like you've done enough don't overtrain.

    Do this routine once a day two times per week on the days I mentioned. In doing this you also get double the amount of workouts per week then Crimson_Stones idea and you get double the amount of rest compared to his routine.

    This is pretty much the same routine I do and after 2 months I'm already gaining weight, getting more muscle definition and using weights one to three sets higher in the weight scale then I was when I first started, so I'm getting good improvements in strength.
     
  3. taekwonguy

    taekwonguy Very Valued Member :)

    ok thanks so no training the other days or stick with my workout for something to do on the days I dont go to the gym?
     
  4. Frodocious

    Frodocious She who MUST be obeyed! Moderator Supporter

    On days when you don't go to the gym you could do bodyweight exercises (many of which you can add weights to - e.g. put your 5kg weights in a backpack and do push ups).

    Instead of military presses try handstand pushups.

    For some ideas have a look at the articles page on:

    http://www.rosstraining.com/

    You could also look at adding gymnastic type exercises to your routine, e.g. planche progressions.

    Or you could do conditioning work at home, e.g. some form of interval training.
     
  5. Reakt

    Reakt Valued Member

    You could do some other exercises for flexibility and endurance inbetween full body workouts at the Gym but you should be aiming to get rest inbetween those sessions, but I suppose doing workouts at home inbetween wont effect rest much, at your age you should be almost repaired after a day or two.
     
  6. TheMachine

    TheMachine Valued Member

    I'm not even gonna get into this kid. We're talking about developing a good foundation of strength. The athletes i mentioened were also lifting way before we introdueced them to the 5x5 and were getting nowehere. of course, a basic, sound strength routine will go wonders in improving performance. Without a proper foundation, plyo could be dangerous and one cannot fully recieve the full benefits of plyo,

    Again kid, THIS IS MY JOB SO I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT I'M DOING!
     
  7. TheMachine

    TheMachine Valued Member


    I'd remove the single joint exrcises ad machine exercises but otherwise the routine is decent.
     
  8. Crimson_Stone

    Crimson_Stone Stay Puft

    1. There is NOTHING wrong with Two-a-day training schemes if one has the time to commit. Both Chad Waterbury and Alwyn Cosgrove (both whom have credibility as strength and conditioning coaches) have two-a-day programs, and in their prog's its 8 lifting sessions spread over 4 days per week.

    2. Notice the distinct difference in set rep schemes. The individual will lift with far different loads. 8x3 @ 85-90% 1RM or approx 5 RM. 3x8 @ 75-80% 1RM or 10 RM. Lifting sessions should be 45-60 minutes in duration. One should not lift to failure.

    3. Practical application of two-a-days can be found in training for sports like football, soccer, baseball, and other out door sports. This is especially popular in the South during the summers. Again, gains thru higher frequency.


    Sooooo, is that a good thing? :confused:

    If I understand you correctly, then bicep curls are more important than deadlifts? Squats are the least important exercise of the day? And Pullups have no value at all?

    Most people like to organize their routines based on the number of or size of muscles used, which has an almost direct correlation with how much fatigue is induced by the exercise. Another train of thought is to rank what is most important to the individual and lift accordingly. How good can the deadlift be if the grip has been taxed by three different exercises? Why save Squats for the last when one is the most fatigued/tired?


    1. Decied for yourself what is important. Set your goals.
    2. Research and educate yourself so that you may achieve your goals.
    3. Work and train hard.

    Read this. It may work well for you.
    2 x 4 muscle
     
  9. SickDevildog

    SickDevildog Lost In The Sauce

    Make yourself a sandbag if you cant go to a gym, you can do all the powerlifts with it:
    http://www.rosstraining.com/sandbagconstructionkit.pdf
     
  10. Skrom

    Skrom Banned Banned

    1. the fact that your athletes were lifting way before being introduced to 5x5 makes your point even more irrelevant, since as i said before, we are talking about a skinny 15 year old who has never lifted weights. way to ignore the most significant point of my post.

    2. just because this is your job does not mean you know what you're doing. i have no way of knowing whether or not you do right now though, since all you've done so far is rant and rave about 5x5. do you just prescribe this to everyone you train, toddlers and senior citizens alike?

    3. calling me "kid" repeatedly does not make you right. however, if it makes you feel like a big man, go for it.
     
  11. TheMachine

    TheMachine Valued Member

    1. These guys were going NOWEHERE AND GETTING ZERO RESULTS BEFORE WE STARTED TAKING OVER THEIR TRAINING!!!

    2. THIS IS MY JOB AND RESULTS MUST BE PRODUCED!! if I don't produce, I can get fired and have no money to pay the bills and put food on the table. Therefore, I mut and have been constantly producing results

    I've handled cases from a 15 year old skinny kid to an 81 year old man so again, I know what I'm doing.

    Again, you may be learning now, but your flight time isn't enough yet. In a few years, you may even surpass me and I'll look back to this thread but as of now, just let us veterans handle this. You'll have your time, believe me!
     
  12. Skrom

    Skrom Banned Banned

    you're still missing the point. i'm assuming that when you say these athletes were getting no results, they had been weight training awhile and had hit a wall in their training, which you helped them break by switching up the rep scheme and whatever else. that situation has nothing to do with this situation, because, as i have said many times already, the OP has never lifted weights before. he's not an athlete, he hasn't hit a plateau, and he's not ready to just jump into heavy lifting.

    i'm sure you get results for your clients, but that's still not the point. i'm not looking to have "my time" or whatever...i just disagree with what you're saying, and you're doing nothing to back up your views aside from talking about your job and acting condescending.
     
  13. TheMachine

    TheMachine Valued Member

    If you read the history of the 5x5, it was used as a foundational routine for NCAA teams to build strength and size to prepare them for other routines in the near future. if there's anything that backs up my claims, its the results. Again, we can go on and on about this but at the end of the days, its the results that matter.

    Again, I still believe that the 5x5 is a very good foundational routine for a beginner. In the future, one may replace the dynamic bent row with power cleans to improve speed-strength. Traditional bodybuilding routines are but for aesthetic purposes. If a person wants to compete in bodybuilding, htat would be fine for pre-contest work. but, for athletes, programs such as the 5x5 are a smart choice.
     
  14. Skrom

    Skrom Banned Banned

    no matter how many times you post about athletes, it's still irrelevant in this situation.

    you kind of started off like you were going to start talking about why you think 5x5 is more appropriate for beginners than higher rep work, but then you got sidetracked.

    i'll restate my position. higher rep programs are more appropriate for beginners because:
    - low weight allows the lifter to learn the lifts without fear of injury.
    - high reps give the lifter more practice with each lift.
    - it is easier for most people to build a solid base in mass using higher reps. most people who are just starting to lift have very little muscle, and therefore very little potential for strength.

    that's the gist of it. now you state your position, and we will have a relatively intelligent discussion about this particular topic and nothing else.
     
  15. TheMachine

    TheMachine Valued Member


    the 5x5 is idea because:

    lower reps prevernt form breakdown when fatigue starts to build in. 5 reps is ideal since it borrders the threshold of fatigue.

    The constant adding of 5 lbs per weeek then deloading makes people add at least 25 lbs to their previous starting weight by around 6 weeks ad we all know that progressive overload build muscle and strength. our aim is to get beginners as stong and as muscular as possible to prepare them for other training phases which are more physically demanding.

    The 5x5 was build as foundational routine for the off-season when one builds a strength and conditioning foundation and if a competitive athlete, to work on fundamentals and weak pints in his game

    high rep training wuld be more ideal once a good foundation of strength is built since the pain threshold is already somewhat developed.

    most coaches neglect the importance of off season trainining, its sad but true.
     
  16. Skrom

    Skrom Banned Banned

    1. the only way lower reps would prevent form breakdown would be if the weight was also light, which defeats the purpose of low reps. yeah, it prevents the buildup of fatigue, but if you're not comfortable with the lift at light weight, you won't be comfortable with it with heavy weight. what's the point of preventing fatigue if you can't do a good solid rep to begin with?

    2. progressive overload is not exclusive to 5x5.

    3. again, i am not doubting the effectiveness of 5x5 with athletes. we are talking about a complete beginner here, not an athlete.

    4. i don't see how higher reps are more effective for more experienced lifters. a beginner's 10 rm is going to be fairly close to their 1 rm, whereas a more experienced lifter's 10 rm is going to be further away from his 1 rm. neural efficiency along with good technique. so how is it that the experienced lifter is going to benefit from it more than the beginner, when they're not even working anywhere near their 1 rm?
     
  17. TheMachine

    TheMachine Valued Member


    A person usually start with roughly 60% of their 1rm or a better way is gettng their 5rm. If you go to the website, there's a spreadsheet there so after getting one's 5rm, you can input it into the spreadsheet and the numbers will be calculated for you. I know yu are skeptic of the 5x5, I hav started using the Bill Starr version only this year since I also used something similar to what you would recommend. Aftr seeing how it made at least 30 guys numbers increase 25-40% in just a few months of training, I became a believer. And most of thse guys could barely even squat 100 lbs when they were starting a few months back. Last night, a guy who could only squat 95 lbs suddenly was doing 145 and it looked very easy.

    about the higher rep issue, I have a different take as beginners form is not yet textbook as we all know and when fatigue sets in, form breakdown occurs. That is why i prefer to keep the reps low and just bump up the sets so they can stay as fresh as possible and practice more while staying fresh as possible. Ironically, even some martial arts classes do this when they are practicing a technique, a lot of sets and keeping the reps low so you can maintain good form since any knowledgeable guy who trains knows that form is at the top of the list in terms of importance.

    I know that we're also dealing with a newbie here so don't worry i know exactly how to handle this :) I am also a martial artist and have been practicing since I was in high shcool and now I've alredy working for several years. Teens have the biggest case of weight training ADD, so the best thing to do is to make someone get results to make them stick to a program. Also, putting them on the basic compound free weight exercises which the 5x5 does will bring them a long way in preparing for their future endeavors. If one wants to become a powerlifter or an athlete, they have already built a good foundation, same goes if one wants to become a bodybuilder.
     
  18. Skrom

    Skrom Banned Banned

    1. personal experience. i can give you a bunch of stories about how many new people i've seen make improvements with high rep programs, and we won't get anywhere.

    2. so you're advocating using low reps with low weight? that's cool i guess, but i don't remember you saying anything about that earlier in the thread. if you're talking about low reps with high weight, i already said why i didn't agree with that.

    3. more personal experience. also, the last sentence makes very little sense. do you think that muscle built on a higher rep program doesn't count as real muscle or something? it's easier for beginners to make gains with high reps anyway, so i don't see why you would try to force the use of 5x5 early on instead of saving it for a more appropriate time (like when the trainee is not a complete beginner anymore).
     
  19. TheMachine

    TheMachine Valued Member


    I never said that muscle built on a higher rep program isn't real muscle, I only prefer using the 5x5 since it makes a trainee stronger and faster in the shortst amount of time. The total tonnage is the secret in this workout apart form all the basics such as progressive overload and deloading.

    If you have any questions of the effectivity of the 5x5, do a search on its history and you'll see that it has been the staple of many high school and college programs for off season strength and conditioning. I always say, at the end of the day, its the results that mtter and if the results I have posted and seen with my own eyes aren't enough, then I don't know what is.
     
  20. Skrom

    Skrom Banned Banned

    see, the thing is, i've explained why i think that high rep programs are more effective for beginners (meaning they'll get bigger and stronger faster), and you haven't addressed any of my points. you just keep saying that 5x5 is better without saying why.

    then you go and start talking about how effective 5x5 is for off season athletes...we're not talking about off season athletes. i'll say it again: i don't doubt the effectiveness of 5x5. i just don't think that it's appropriate for a complete beginner.
     

Share This Page