Women's self defense classes

Discussion in 'Women's Self Defence' started by Metal_Kitty, Feb 22, 2011.

  1. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Teenage girls do it every day all over the world with no training at all.
    Defending yourself isn't about winning a fight (although it can be). It's often about putting enough barriers (mental, psychological etc) in the way of your attackers objective that they abort their mission.
    That could be as little as a slap and run, some choice words, some careful positioning and awareness or ramming a thumb in someone's eye.
  2. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    Well in my experience with self-defense instruction, there definitely can be cultural, environmental, and psychological aspects that affect how well a lesson is learned and applies to each individual.

    In a general sense, I've noticed that males seem to be able to focus on one thing at a time and kind of switch gears to focus on something else. For example, a male student might tend to come into a boxing training and if during the training they are told to clean the dishes in the kitchen :eek: they sort of don't listen at first. Then it kind of sinks in and they switch gears from boxing to cleaning the dishes. And when they start thinking about doing the dishes, they get punched in the face cause they forgot about boxing.

    On the other hand, a female student might tend to come into boxing training and if told to do the dishes, it is all related to her. In fact, almost everything is related, like everything in the world is buzzing around in her mind at the same time. So she might be like, "hey you, stop punching me, I have to go do the dishes", and if you don't stop, then she then might be thinking, okay now I got to knock this guy out so I can go do the dishes.

    A more applicable example could be if you bring a woman into training with someone else, and that someone grabs her as part of training, in the woman's mind this could bring back feelings of every other time she was grabbed, thoughts of her mother telling her how ladies should act, etc. because it is ALL related. So you tell the student to elbow the guy, but because the guy grabbed her in a certain way, she is frozen because it is like how she was grabbed before and this relates to her being told to be submissive in the past... Now in real time it looks just like a male student grabbing a female student in training and not related to anyting else... but in the mind of the female student, the levels of relationships with her past experiences, how she was raised, and all is just incredible complex.

    Wow, hope I didn't just offend anyone with my attempt to explain something cause it is a very complex subject and I'm no expert, that's for sure.

    Edit: What this means in a nutshell is that when a women trains in self-defense, she could be much more affected by what has happened to her in the past and how she was raised, than say a man training in the same environment. A man may be able to focus more on the one situation and forget the past, whereas a women may feel all things are related and any familiar trigger could set off memories and reactions based on past experiences.
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2011
  3. melb

    melb Banned Banned

    PAS I thought your post was a good one. I saw an example of just that on the train home last night. How though is a self defence class going to help them?. JWT, I hear what youre saying about having to learn a lot of things which are irrelevant to ma..maybe counting from 1-10 in japanese/chinese..having a grading... However, it all depends on the instructor in question. Personally I think ma or self defence..it doesnt matter...people are there to learn how to fight. When faced with a teenage girl who isnt interested in fighting and theyre only in the class because they have to be..what good is it doing?
  4. melb

    melb Banned Banned

    What Im saying I guess is that the sd industry is huge and its very similar to the 'join a gym and get fit' craze we have nowadays. Its largely about taking peoples money and giving very little in return. I realise there are some honest people out there who do their best and hopefully do some good. But can you ever train someone whos not interested in fighting to fight? Will their personality determine the outcome of an 'incident' rather than their sd training? I think so
  5. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    I think you might have quite a different opinion on self-defense than many in the industry. First there is a difference between fighting and fighting well. Fighting well means you pick your fights so that losing is not an option. This could mean avoiding fights, talking your way in and out, and exploding through any obstacles when opportunity is presented. The fundamental way for learning how to fight well (e.g. when to fight) is based on experience. So the primary goal of any self-defense training is to give each student experience in a realistic environment and self-protection situation. This can be a wake up call and eye opener to anyone and it CAN change their lives and the way they think about things.

    When you ask about training someone not interested in fighting to fight, this is all part of giving people exposer/experience to what is out in the real world. There are alot of people that won't fight and like sheep will go along with anything so long as they think they are not in any real danger... BUT as soon as they are backed in a corner in a life or death situation... EVEN sheep will fight. One of the keys is to educate people so they realize when they realistically are in danger and from what dangers... this allows them to make more educated decisions on when to fight and when to give in or talk their way in or out so that they are not suddenly caught backed in a corner with no option but to die or fight (and then most likely die anyway).

    On the other hand, there are self-defense programs that do little to give students experience in a dangerous environment and situation... these types of self-defense programs are not in the same class as the above forementioned ones. They, however, can provide a social outlet for some along with conditioning and basic skill sets. They can be a stepping stone for some that aren't ready for harder training. They are not useless, but at the same time, they should make it clear that this type of training in not as immediately useful if they feel they need self-defense, it is more of a pastime approach. IMHO.
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2011
  6. melb

    melb Banned Banned

    Well I already knew I had a different view to those in the industry...they see a $ i see a ? Fighting well..? Picking your fights? Talking? Exploding through? I dont go out there picking and choosing my fights..if I can talk my way out of it I will, if I cant I'll try to win..not complicated. I think your argument about even sheep will fight is flawed..mabe they just cower in a corner? What Im talking about is things such as "educating people to realise when they are realistically in danger"..I mean really what are you talking about? They need someone to train them to walk the other way when a crazy guy starts hassling them? To not walk the city at night by themselves?
  7. Rebel Wado

    Rebel Wado Valued Member

    That's not what I meant. Most in the self-defense industry are not in it for the money.

    A very small percentage of folks teaching self-defense actually make a lot of money at it. Those that do make good money probably do so by selling self-defense videos/books and running seminars than actually teaching regular classes.

    On the contrary it is very complex. Talking your way in can be for getting inside a weapon's range so you can attack. Talking your way out could be to gain distance so that you are outside the range of a weapon so that you can deploy your own weapon. I had a buddy who was not the only one that besides his regular concealed firearm, he kept a backup in his coat pocket. When he got to a point where he was trying to convince some hothead that they really didn't want to fight, he already had his weapon ready to shoot the guy should it be necessary. Even shoot the guy through his coat pocket. This guy was a tough fighter and even unarmed you wouldn't want to mess with him, but he had a job that brought him in dangerous areas.

    Talk your way out of a fight is not even the tip of the iceberg. Convincing the other guy that he really doesn't want to fight and getting a weapon is more likely. And what ever you can do, so can the other guy. IMHO.

    Yes sheep do cower. Sheep cower because they are in denial, then when death comes they fight to live in a PANIC, but it is often too late.

    Consider if a person actually believes they are going to die, given time they can learn to let go and accept it. Once they accept death, they no longer panic but instead there is a calming coolness. This is at a time they can be at their bravest. A transformation from sheep to sheep dog.

    The sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs is from the writings of LTC Dave Grossman. Here is a link to a review of the particular section as it applies to women's self-defense in someone's opinion: http://womensselfdefense.info/56.html (<-- the person that wrote this believes all women or most are sheep)

    Here is a link to the excerpt from Dave Grossman's book: http://www.killology.com/sheep_dog.htm (<-- I highly recommend reading this to anyone interested in self-defense that has not already read it. Or even if they have, read it again.)

    Personally I do not totally go along with everything as stated, so it should not be taken as my opinion in full. Also mostly because I was introduced to a modified view of sheep, coyotes, wolves, and sheep dogs, but that is another story.

    I think we are on the same page here. :cool:
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2011
  8. melb

    melb Banned Banned

    Rebel, I live in Australia. Our government doesnt allow us to carry firearms..and I agree with their decision (I do have a yearning sometimes to oil a snub nosed 38 though). Living where you do it would be a different matter. Thanks for the heads up..and thanks for taking the effort to reply so comprehensively. I really appreciate it.
  9. John Titchen

    John Titchen Still Learning Supporter

    This is something I don't see in the UK.

    In the UK the Martial Arts 'Industry' is huge, but in a small town way. By that I mean there are now thousands of clubs up and down the country, in a vast range of styles and systems. The clubs vary in size and quality, some are well established (with a history of about 40 years) and some are new. However unlike a number of other countries it is very rare to find clubs/organisations with their own training halls. Most just pitch up at Village halls or sports centres for their classes. In similar vein many clubs only make enough money to cover rental costs, using martial arts as a primary source of income is quite rare.

    Within this marketplace there are 'self defence' clubs, but they are one of the smallest groups out there. Far more common is finding martial arts clubs that advertise themselves as teaching self defence to recruit new students and then essentially teach their art, not self defence. That, admittedly, is something that annoys me. I would not mind if they devoted half their classes to teaching effective self defence, but when it's their main advertising draw and they teach a half hearted unresearched ad libbed self defence 'application' once in a blue moon - I feel it's just misleading people. :bang:
  10. Sargeslide

    Sargeslide Valued Member

    melb, the way females and males are raised is different, even in this day and age. And I agree with some of what's been said, teaching SD will not make you rich, not even close. I have been doing it for years and I have yet to break even. The other things is, SD is not MA's, totally different. SD is more common sense, fewer techniques and more awareness.

    And yes, some people do have to be taught to go the other direction, to not walk down that alley, to avoid that group of men on the corner at 2am. People want to believe that others are generally "good" like they are, unfortunately, this is not reality, and when stuff goes down, if you are not trained to respond, you are screwed. Your hope that people will do the right thing all the time put's you at a disadvantage before anything begins.

    People have to be trained to counter these things, especially women.

  11. robertmap

    robertmap Valued Member

    Hi 'Sarge',

    I agree with most of what you say although I have a couple of observations:

    "the way females and males are raised is different" - From a SD point of view, not all - some females are taught in exactly the same way as males - not nearly enough I grant but some are...

    "People want to believe that others are generally 'good'" - I'd suggest that most people ARE GOOD - the problem is that the 'bad, sad or mad' are a very dangerous group and most people have no clue how to deal with an encounter with any of those three types of aggressor.
  12. Microlamia

    Microlamia Banned Banned


    I remember feeling totally safe to walk around at crazy hours with my hair loose listening to Violator on headphones. Now I wouldn't even walk freely. I always scope around in about a 50 metre radius to look out for anyone who might be dangerous, and always stay near a 'safe haven' such as a supermarket.
  13. Sargeslide

    Sargeslide Valued Member

    Robert, you are very correct, I have trained a few that maybe were tougher than most men I have known, but unfortunately, they are the exception. Most females want to only know enough to stop something from happening so they andthe attacker can walk away without to much trouble. This is not a reality. I never understood it, but I do the best I can to change that mindset.

    I have a gal, she will tear you up like shes the devil herself. But she was very different from most that I get, she is my assistant. Best part of it? She looks like a little, pretty, timid girl, never hurt a fly. Well, don't put your hands on her, god help you. I have a buddy, a fellow AikiJJ player, and he is 6'4", 270, and he couldn't hold on to her, he picked her up from behind to carry her off in class and she put her foot on his knee, pushed and spun around to put an elbow through his head, then planted a foot in his crotch. He let go, she dropped to the ground and proceeded to land hit after hit in his mid section, then stomped his foot. He went to the ground and she backed off to a safe distance. His first words were "I like her". It really is the mindset and fight in the dog that wins in those situations. And most times, it has to be shown to them.

    More later
    Have a great day

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