Woman VS Man experience

Excellent point and one which I think no one can disagree with. That said, I am now waiting for someone to say it ain't so.

Booksie, I promise that from this point forth, I will only post silly and useless points which are insulting to as much of the population at once as is humanly possible.

*****waiting for the bop on the head******* :Angel:

 

*tackles Wry from behind* bet ya we'ren't expecting that

 

Like little rabbit foo foo did to the field mice?

 

Durn it Booksie!

It was little BUNNY foo foo. SO there! (insulting yet or should I work on it still?)

 

How to "fight" a female

The title may sound odd, but at my job I sometimes have to deal with drunken and outraged females. The word "fight" is in quotation marks because I dont exactly mean real fight but ability control a outraged female without causing injuries and bruises. It's somewhat different to fight a female than a man:
First, a man respects bigger size and superior power, which females apparently don't.
Second, if you twist a man's hand behind his back, he feels pain that makes him stop fighting back, but females joints are so flexible that she feels nothing before a real injury takes place.
Third, men never scratch and kick, but females do that regularly and obviously inherently in a fight.
Fourth, men know when the fight is over, but females seem to fight about life and death, if they just think they are right (and if they are drunk, they often do think so).
I just want to know which would be the best way to control an outraged female and perhaps cause only the pain needed to reduce the resistance and also to eliminate the risk of getting scrathced and kicked

 

Hmmm I swore blind that I was gonna stay out of it, but.....

Men never kick??? I've kicked people flying....Kicking is a great skill, but has to be used wisely, else you fall on your ****....putting you exactly where your attacker wants you. Men kick each other all the time, the famous Football (Soccer) hooligan kick being a case in point...

Or scratch? Last week I saw a 'streetfight' where one guy was trying to Gouge the other guys eyes out (now that would of been a scratch). I dig scratch and gouge all the time...Maybe at heart I'm just a Big Girl???

The problem with your analysis, is that it comes right out of the Boys scouts guide to Fighting Fairly..nobody fights like this where I'm from. No man I've ever seen 'Fight' didn't descend into 'Real Fighting' the minute it became clear that he had a 'Real Fight' on his hands. it is a hang-over from Upper Class Victorian and Puritan thinking, that doesn't reflect the world we live now or in the past.

Fights between men are often life or death situations, what may start as an argument and a 'punch-up' but can easily turn into Murder...hence why men are often kiled or seriously injured in 'Streetfights'. And the reasons for them starting are Myriad, from Ego to Injustice, the entire gamut of human satire...

I've seen Small guys rip into big guys, they were so angry they didn't care about superior size and strength (Have you been watching too much Jerry Springer???). I once got Blind-sided by a guy not much more than half my weight, it was like somebody throwing an electrocuted cat at me...

As for knowing when the fight is over-you've gotta be kidding me?? Nobody has much common sense in a 'Fight', that's why they are 'Fighting'.

Raw emotions are just that...Unless both parties are seperated, they will carry on and the situation will become worse, until they are either not fit to continue or dead. They're are exceptaions to the Rule, yes, most Bar fights are ego-driven despair and the Beer talking, but even they can become alot more serious in double-quick time.

That's why Bouncers, Police etc intervene to stop violence, if 'Men know when fights are over', then they'd just clout each other a few times and then leave it at that, something that i've never seen, experienced except in Movies or Comic Books.

Note that I am talking about 'Men' here and not 'Boys'.

Regarding the whole 'Man vs Woman' thing.

Men that 'attack' a women, are probably not (probably not) going to lamp her with a straight right to knock her flat out. Unless it's a domestic...

Most attacks on women by men are to Control and Restrain that Woman for the purpose of either Robbery and/or Rape/ Murder.

Hence why a woman who fights back has the distinct advantage of surprise on her side. Having picked a 'Victim' because she looks like an easy target, said attacker will have the surprise of his life if said 'Victim' turns round and attacks him, shattering his expectations.

If she can create enough 'Forward Drive' with enough power, hitting him with the hard bony bits of her body, then she has a very good chance of getting away (the important bit for anybody is getting away and not standing there trading blows toe to toe like the King of Kung Fu). Hit hard, create a gap and Leg it...

As for systems that would be useful to your purpose (drunk people to be controlled)? Do as the L.E.O's do, they need systems that can pacify and control people in a state of emotional distress or high on drugs etc.

Talk to the Cops, see what they do, most of them take what they can and what is deemed useful for their purpose, from systems such as Chin Na, Hapkido, Ju Jitsu (Brasilian and Japanese) etc.

They will often use a range of techniques that don't require 'Pain Compliance' such as Body control tactics from said systems. They will also use Locks if and when neccessary. Don't neglect your Strikes though-you may need them, whether you are 'allowed' to hit people or not.

 

Ive had to be restrained at a bar once .... wasnt difficult...bouncer threw me over his shoulder. If I was sober, it would have been more difficult .

When it comes to restraining chicks, if she is after someone else get behind her and hold her wrists. this is what I see most bouncers do. That or a bear hug...but the bear hug leaves you open for a toe stomp (but at least protects your groin), and most chicks wont head butt you.

 

SoKKlab:
Naturally everything you say is correct in principle, but if I know most of the customers and most of them know me in person, so its very seldom that I have to fight them about life and death. The manuscript in 98 per cent of the "fights" against drunken men goes according to how I described. Maybe they are more boys than men, as you said. Furthermore, there is quite often some minor brawl with men, and only rarely and very occasionally with females.
Tika1980:
Thanks, I know t least that wrist grabbing technique. It works perfectky, if it's possible to approach the target from behind because chicks usually have very thin wrists and it's easy to reach fingers together around them. But that throwing over one's shoulder ... oww.. . I guess you bones are harder than most chicks'.

 

Im a toughie ....The bouncer was very nice about it though. Quite cute too... He seemed to be entertained by my anger, and they tossed the guy I was trying to kill, so he didnt have to restrain me long .

 

For a second time, I find myself agreeing with Hedge. If women can get the skill, knowing groundwork can be a huge advantage from a SD point of view.

Regarding bigger stronger opponents, they are always difficult to overcome regardless of whether you are a woman or man. When you have skill, the chances of you getting beat are less, but not zero going against someone bigger and stronger. Distance judgement is a hugely understated point in MA training sometimes, and for an opponent to be taller than you, means you have to be more skillful if you are striking because you have to get closer - if they are bigger, then even worse because you are getting in the range where the opponent can just use strength, and control you using their strength. I don't know about reach regarding grappling, (Ground and stand up).

However, from my limited experience, I find that women tend to be more 'animal' like in their SD application than men - who generally prefer to punch and grab. That can be the best element of surprise, a nice scratch across the face, digging in nails However, sokklab you say otherwise, would like to discuss when we meet. But strength does play a huge factor, it just depends on the skill of the other whether they can use it or not, again, equally applied to women or men.

(I do have a mate though who says that he would bite someones eyelids off if he got into a fight, but its talk at the mo cause he never has!)

 

Point is B,
We are all animals when we get going.....Not to say that I a mad bugger or anything (I'm actually a really really nice guy), but I've bitten people when they have tried to assault me, probably not the most hygenic thing to do, but it does get their attention.

I've also gouged people quite severely when it was obvious that they weren't going to stop attacking me.

From a Martial Arts POV, the entire Chin Na system is based upon, Gouging, Squeezing, Insertion between Muscle and Bone and Muscle and tendon etc and Chin Na practitioners often grew their nails accordingly, particularly the Index Finger, as it was extremely useful for cutting the skin and adding bite to the Lock, or gouge.

Women should use their natural weapons. Ie most women generally have longer nails, so they use them to scratch and cut with-good choice, every time I grow mine, I get told off, but nails are a great weapon, so use them if you have them.

Women (and Men) should use their legs to kick as well. Most women realise that they'll be overpowered if they try to wrestle with the guy (By Wrestle I mean Grapple But Without Grappling Skill, sheer over-powerment-is that a word? Tis Now..).

Also a woman will Kick and scratch a Man who is holding her or arguing with her, in a social situation, because she doesn't Expect him to Belt her with his fists etc.

If it was socially exceptable for Men to Beat women up, then womans tactics would have to change accordingly.

Another point is, Most men tend to know a bit about Fighting, or at least the basics, because they are likely to have been in a few by the time they are in their teens and beyond. So they tend to use what they know as an opener.

Ie Line somebody up for a sucker punch. Throw basic Jab Cross etc.

It's only when that tactic fails do you see the fight degenerate into other tactics, Ie grappling with or without any of the following: Kicking, Gouging, Grabbing someones hair and using as a lever to smash their face into the wall etc...Downing someone and then Kicking/ Stamping them to pieces etc. (How many times have you seen or heard of that happening-an extremely common tactic).

I'll point out here also, that this is generally a 'Class thing'. Ie if you are from a Working Class (Blue Collar) background, then you will face more adversity in the form of violence in your life, therefore you tend to develop basic tactics to deal with it/ them.

Anway-Kicking Good, Scratching Good, Grappling-useful to have at least a basic understanding and feeling for it etc.

Finally added: I know and have seen plenty of women punch men in social situations, again mostly a class thing or something they have trained to do...

 

Oh, don't get me wrong, Im all for the women using all natural resources, which includes a brick if its available!

However, Im just thinking from the point of view from a bloke, I've always seen the one swing-two swing-grapple till on the floor, then either mates get involved, or it stops and starts again. (I don't even think Ive seen gouging, however, I've never been that up close and personal so...) A huge caveat though, Im thinking, is that its normally between young males, (normally aged between about 16-25); I can't remember ever seeing two older guys going at it, perhaps there is a difference, especially for the reason of fighting.

Ill make sure you wear a headguard when we get together by the way hannibal, er I mean russ...

 

I guess the Rule is. It's best not to State anything as an absolute, when it comes to either Gender....

And, to make a Differentiation between:

A Row
A Fight
And an Assault.

Either way, stay safe everybody...

Oh and B....Kebab, Mmmmm kebab.

 

Did what to the guy does sound like a friendly bouncer!

 

Hello all - my two penneth.

This is of course a fun issue, but let’s take a step back from it. Why do we train? For self Defense, for fun, to make friends, to get fit, to improve oneself. Women can do all of the “internal” things as well as men, no doubt – the only really issue is self defense, which ironically is possibly a bigger driver to start training for women anyhow.

So can a woman beat a man? YES. But you’re going to have to look pretty hard to find a good enough woman AND a bad enough man. This is from experience – a very close friend of mine teaches TKD and is nationally ranked. She also teaches women’s self defense. She says that if you are attacked there are 2 things you can do – “hit and run” (THIS IS WHAT I’D ADVOCATE) or “stay and play”. She claims she’d stay and play in a confrontation – and I plead with her to change her mind. Why? Highly trained as she is, I don’t think I have a male adult friend that couldn't batter her. In an attack I believe she would have a moment of surprise, and then things would get nasty (for her). She has too much faith in her ability – these people don’t spar for points so she should ‘live to fight another day”.

I bring this up because I think that it applies to most women. Yes this sounds sexist, but unless you and your assailant come from opposite extremes of the normal curve – use what you’ve learned to get away fast. Trained or not, no difference, I believe about 95% of the male population have the edge on you.

 

RichRich, you're probably gonna catch it from somebody here pretty soon.

I agree with you mostly, but I wouldn't say 95%. 94% probably?

But I know some big girls that could knock people out, but they are few.

 

You get my point. & I'm being candid because peoples safety and well-being may be at stake. But its only one small part of life and the sexes enjoy partity in most other aspects and women are better then men in some.

It is noteworthy you say "big girls" not "skillfull girls".

 

Its not a fun issue at all for me. I hate having to defend my martial arts abilities because I am female. Im really getting quite sick of it. And yes, I think many women get into MA for self defense reasons, but I would probably not even put that number at half. Especailly those of us that started young.

These kind of statements make me mad. I am not the greatest fighter, and im really quite short. But if a man untrained in martial arts attacks me, I think I have a really good chance of being the victor. I am not like this woman you speak of and would not "stay and play"... in a real dangerous situation I would call even an advanced male martial artist a moron for staying.... but I would put my money on a trained female martial artist against a non trained male any day. Yes there will be times when the mans pure power will win. But there are so many different aspects of fighting that pure strength does not need to be the deciding factor. And strength and size are the only places where men have an advantage.

I just dont think that you have seen any real well rounded female martial artists. Ones that are strong, fast, flexible, and have good technique and a quick mind. Put them up against a stupid thug thats trying to snatch her purse and she will most likely leave the situation unharmed.

Some of you men seem to count us out. Just because we have a genetic strength disadvantage to men, does not mean we cant hold our own in a fight.

Now I have to say...what Im saying goes for the TRAINED female vs. the UNTRAINED male... Even I have to admit that you put a guy and a girl same rank same style up against eachother, the guy has an advantage in the form of size and strength. But I still think that a woman can use her other skills to keep up with him....or at least be a bit competative.

And remember, not all of us train for just point sparring.

 

You seem smart enough to use your arts to your short term advantage and then leave, so the argeument is somewhat moot. The danger would be assuming you had the advantage when you didn't and paying a horrible price. I hope we never find out, but if we do I hope I'm proved wrong!

 

That can go for either gender.

Yeah ... in that kind of situation... but thats still a woman beating a man.

And what about this statement? I think its a bit exagerated. You are saying that the only way for a really good female martial artist to win is to be put up against a really bad fighting man. That is just plain silly. And there are plenty of advanced female martial artists on this site that will say just that.