Woman gets beaten in her own home by burglar

SiB, I'm not trying to team up on you or ridicule you here, but the point you're missing is that some of the people in the threads (like this one) you post in have a lot more training + experience in violence than you do, and if they contradict your opinions on violence, you take it personally and just dig in deeper in any misconceptions you have on the subject.

We're not all "keyboard warriors" here because many of us have had professions that forced us to react to violence repeatedly. There are some on MAP (and following this thread) who have repeatedly taken human life in their jobs. When enough "violence professionals" keep saying the same thing, it's often a strong indication that you should listen instead of firing back a quick written reaction.

You might not realize it, but many of us feel you're probably fundamentally a good guy whose heart is in the right place. For the sake of your kid, and your wife, put your ego aside and try to open up your mind and educate yourself further about violence.

Hollow point ammo isn't the coup d'état of combat shooting. An "adequate" shooter can group their shots consistently to the size of a fist on target under simulated adrenal conditions at about 15-feet with a pistol. An exceptional shooter, and I mean a strong shooter within the special operations community, groups about the size of a quarter consistently. It's estimated you lose about 50% accuracy in CQC combat shooting (I do not know if this accounts for most shootings occurring in low-light conditions, however.). It takes 1000s of rounds of ammo (I used to shoot 1k ammo/month) and 100s of hours under the guidance of a trained professional to get passably proficient in combat shooting. I strongly doubt you even know where your rate on the adrenal combat shooting scale SiB.

That's not an attempt at a personal attack SiB. If you're seriously about protecting your family, and you clearly are passionate about it, then be realistic and get the training I'm discussing first.

 

Just read through this thread. My conclusions are as follows.

1 - Yay, looks like they caught the guy.
2 - Some people need to grow up and get out of fantasy land.

I know how hard and long I have trained and I still know my chances in a self defence situation are not 100% despite this and despite scenario based training. Yet give some people a gun and they're all like "I don't have to train stuff seriously no more, just look at my gun here".

 

Friend of mine is a retired FBI agent. He said that it was not uncommon for people to be shot once or twice, and still kill the officer who shot them with a knife. It's one of the reasons that if they started shooting, they'd shoot until the other guy was down on the ground.

People don't fly off their legs when they're shot, like in the movies. The kinetic impact of a bullet is no greater than the recoil of the gun used to shoot it. Unless you hit the heat or sever the spine, it takes a while for people to die. Especially with an adrenalin flood in their blood.

 

5.56 is effective up until a certain range (100-200m?) but it's penetration drops off after that. Which is great in the urban or jungle fighting that was happening when it was adopted. You're basically shooting a .22 caliber bullet with the load of a much larger round, so the energy is pretty high. A lightweight round with that much energy does some crazy things when it hits an object. It can fragment or trace along a hard object like a bone, cutting a much longer channel than would be possible if it were going in a straight line.

The heavier rounds, like 7.62, maintain their momentum and therefore accuracy and destructive ability at longer ranges, but they cost more to produce, take up more room and weigh more. The weapons that fire them are made from heavier components and generally suffer from greater recoil.
In short, they're suited to different ranges.

With pistols, you're dealing with light rounds, short barrels, and small loads, so the energy involved is much lower.

Ultimately you're destroying a portion of the nervous system or causing the opponent to bleed out. According to the FBI report posted earlier in the thread, it can take up to 20 seconds for blood loss to incapacitate a person even if the heart is completely and instantly destroyed, so that's not exactly ideal for an immediate stoppage.

That leaves the central nervous system, from the brain stem down (now other portions of the brain can work, maybe even consistently, but I've seen proof of them failing too). It guarantees a stoppage of every portion of the body down from the point of destruction, but it's a small target. Far too small to reliably hit under pressure unless you are a SEAL team ninja or something.

So basically the benefit to any round is the area it destroys. (larger area means greater odds of hitting the central nervous system as well as greater blood drainage) Of course this must be balanced with the recoil, reliability, any expansion etc. So a hot .45 that you can't score multiple hits with quickly is not as good as an average 9mm or .40 that you can. Of course the dimensions and weight of your weapon will also factor in.

Now I'm no expert, so maybe someone better informed can correct any faulty info or expand on what I've posted.

 

Sorry to be a noob but for some reason my computer will not play the imbedded vids. Could one of you tech savy dudes please post the link to the gracie vid that way I can copy and paste to my browser. I really want to see how Rener thinks GJJ could have worked in this scenario. Thanks in advance.

 

This page has the link on it.

http://www.gracieacademy.com/news/gracie-breakdown-n.j.-mother-brutally-attacked.asp

I watched the video. They don't give any specific advice on the situation - that could cause all sort of issues as well as being insensitive. Instead they just give some general advice on what can be some good ideas and how to control range.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/jun/28/man-prison-second-trial-rape

Isn't this case in some ways worse? This is what annoys me when American MAPers start discussing guns and self defense. It's like being on another planet.

 

I'd say it's worse in almost every way imaginable, but I'm not sure what point you're making.

 

Thanks Mate. I watched the entire 38+ minutes.

 

Seems to me that he was advocating "Pulling Guard". Not sure if I agree with that technique in this scenario.

 

they supposedly cannot use hollow points because they are inhumane... I don't know how that is inhumane and a guy bleeding out over the next day or longer is any less so. However, the round is supposed to "tumble" as I have been told so that's a little more humane I guess?

 

Then don't read posts by Americans?

 

you are grouping everyone into the same category. I myself (can't speak for others) train just as often and as hard as I always have. Actually, getting the gun years ago was a very frightening experience as it hits you that death could be only a trigger pull away and that you had to be more careful than ever with where it stays, how it's held, blah blah. After some courses you feel better about it, but it still stays on your mind.

 

When did I ever once say that good habits and training were not a crucial part of things? I don't think I ever posted that.

 

You didn't have to. It was strongly implied when you referred to the magazine as a clip, wrote about fantastical instant death via hollow point, or advocated constant hip carry around children as the best way to protect them. Nobody here believes that you're adequately trained SiB.

 

Since when does using the term 'some people' group everyone into the same category?

 

At my age, along with environmental or residential changes, I can.

 

Kinda what I was saying in my post #105.

As I even had stated, a gun is not a shield that would keep one from harms way.

I cannot fully understand how some people come to put so much faith into something.

I used to carry my gun with me a lot. Even around the house.

Long ago, I realised, Am I being too paranoid?

Moving to my current residency has had me relax.

Does this mean for me not taking safety precautions? No

I still take precautions, but I am no longer over-doing it