Sorry, don't get the joke. I do have a legitimate question to ask though, as I just started kickboxing/Muay Thai, and am also considering doing WC. When you say MT is a supplement to WC, do you mean the conditioning and longer range techniques, or something else? I would really like to do both, but the massive differences in stance, punching and everything else makes me think it would be counter productive for me. So what I am asking is, how do you intergrate the two, and in a self defence situation, which stance and punching methods etc would you use? Sorry if it's a dumb question, but I am genuily interested.
If I am ever in a club or bar, I keep my hands up and loose (as though I'm negotiating). I keep one foot forward and in a loose stance. Never ever do I approach someone in a stance, especially if it's in the argument stage!! I would use mostly wing chun, unless the guy was weak on his feet (legs susceptible), as the hands are a bit faster than in Muay Thai. If the argument has room (street, empty club, etc) I would use long range and powerful attacks (kicks, etc) to put pressure n the guy. When I'm in close, I can start using my close quarter attacks. Without starting another flamewar, I would argue that if your intentions are to do both wing chun and Muay Thai, you start a wing chun school first and then Muay Thai. Wing Chun has very very good footwork to start you off with and will give you some foundation. Then when the time comes when you need long range power or better attacks, find a good Muay Thai gym. Again, it all depends on what you are looking for
Thanks mate, good advice, especially the part about not aproaching someone else in a stance during the argument phase. Could turn a bad situation worse!
lol. When I was at Kamon they told me to do that aswell. I'd have to be one paraniod guy to always have my hands up ready for a fight.
I know a guy who recently got into a fight, a real fight not a competition or sport and the "real fight" ended by the guy getting picked up and slammed into a garbage can. Before that he was getting stomped. I was not there but others who were told me about. Then the guy who lost the fight told me about it himself. Guess what? The guy does wing chung. He's been doing it for over 10 years and used to be an instructor at a school. Does this mean that wing chung is useless? Absolutely not. Wing chung can be effective just as muay thai can be effective. Do you see where I'm going with this? Anyone can make a post about someone loosing or winning a fight and that person being a practitioner of a particular art. It does mean that the art will be a guaranteed victory for someone else using it against a practitioner of another particular art or someone who does no art at all. Please don't tell me he wasn't a good representative of wing chung because the same could be said of your mates not being good representatives of Muay Thai.
one time some guy was in a fight and got shot and was a master of every martial art ever devised, and even those that arnt! anyway, a fight is a fight. sometimes people catch bad breaks and lose no matter how skilled of a fighter they are. *waits for thread to be locked*
I totally agree. Putting up a guard (fists) implies that your ready to fight or attack. Although that maybe true, it’s not something I would want them knowing. An open hand guard is a pretty standard natural defence (even for none martial artists). It’s wont reveal any intentions, other that I’m trying to keep distance (which is expected) and to show that I don’t want to cause trouble, especially if you verbalise that. If it’s more natural and subtle they might not even take note of the actual ‘guard’. This is one thing that differs from sport training; you always keep your guard up for sparring, however we train our reflexes to react to an attack when our hands are down, or not ready to react. Anyway, in the end it's down to the individual. I dont think focusing on competitions and sport is right for my aims. But I dont expect that to be the case for everyone.
The difference being that a good wing chun guy would have known how to get out of a tackle (simple stuff). My mates were not equipped (through their Muay Thai) to deal with the situation they were faced with Without disrepecting the entire wing chun community, there are some bad schools out there (like you have said). Instructor or no instructor, a good wing chunner would have dealt with that situation appropriately. It's the same as saying and instructor of Muay Thai getting in a ring and getting beat by a beginner
You obviously didn't get too far in the Kamon syllabus. If you had listened to your instructor he/she would have told you that in fights you should always keep your hands up and loose. You do not put a guard up, but you keep your hands in a relaxed manner (maybe roll them a bit, etc). If you don't you would get sucker punched, grabbed, headbutted, and other simple moves that are hard to counter with your hands by your side. Every argument you get into, you should be ready for it to kick off. That's not paranoia - that's survival (Rocky music plays in the background...) Of course you will never be able to always walk round with your hands up, but like I have stated - you should do it when you are threatened or having an argument
heres one for you guys,i cant back this up with real evidence(why will become obvious soon) but i was told by a very high up european wing chun trained instructor that he in turn had been told that wing chun was devised from the thailand martial arts(muay boran),and that he had researched this himself and found some evidence.I have practiced and/or taught both arts(wing chun and muay thai) and can see where this line of thought could come from,wewill never know if this is true or not, but i do think that both arts have a lot more in common than have differences,anyway its food for thought for the deep thinkers amongst us,good luck .
Just because your good at wing chung doesn't mean you can't loose a fight. Some of the spectators informed me he landed a couple of open hand strikes before getting pummeled. And whose to say he was tackled he could have hit the concrete from punches that hurt him. He just ran into someone who was a lot more vicious than he was. Do you honestly believe that if someone is good at wing chung than they will not loose or have the potential to loose a fight? He tried to deal with it appropiately, it just didn't work out for him.
This much I agree with. Keeping your hands up in a non confrontational manner during a pontential outbreak for violence is an intelligent idea.
You got a point here, I know my example was weak I just thought of it when people on this thread kept talking of wing chung being this sort of unstoppable art "on the street" and I clearly know of situations where it was proven not to be. There are others this was one I thought of. And they also talked of how wing chung allowed them to control their opponent's energy and redirect and how their hands could not be trapped and so on. I'm sure their are some wing chung practitioners out there with this ability but from what I have often seen the ones who talk about it often are not. They are the ones that once they get hit all that other stuff goes out the window.
Er.. you did say "If I am ever in a club or a bar" I'm not claiming to have gotten far in the Kamon syllabus, but I did listen to the instructor. When did I ever say don't keep your hands up in fights? I was replying to when you said "If I am ever in a club or bar, I keep my hands up and loose" which sounds a bit paranoid. P.S. What branch do you go to?
I don’t think anyone said they or Wing Chun were invincible. However we train with the aims of doing some of the stuff you mentioned, escaping/controlling traps, redirecting attacks, absorbing energy and so on. But like any martial art, it’s not foolproof, and no said it was.
I am one of the instructor's but I regularly go to Covent Garden/private student of Kevin Chan. My apologies for the confusion. I meant that If I'm having a confrontation with an aggressor in a bar or club, rather than walk round clubs with my arms up (unless its the dancefloor)
Just butting in. I find that majority of internet warriors are usually young guys who have been training in MA for less than a year. I train in muaythai, which is known for its striking. One thing that my trainer kept instilling into my head was never to get involved in a fight, particularly a street fight. Your dignity is never going to be hurt if you avoid it in the first place. Thais have a saying ' never scold a mad man or critize a drunkard'. If you win a fight, the loser could use weapon, or come behind your back later to take revenge. It'll never end. It's easier to just walk away from a confrontation. However, if there is a real confrontation, an MT will know the effective striking range, and keep just a little more distance to his adversary. A mugger is a different story. He doesn't have time to train in MA. Now, where does a WC come into the picture? He will be busy training and minding his own business. I suppose the fight occurs more in the mind of fantasizers. :love:
I completely agree with the majority of what you have said. People who go round starting fights for sheer pleasure are fools. It's one of the reasons I don't do tournaments, ring matches or cage fights - someone's pride always gets hurt and people end up with grudges. There are occasions however, that fights are inevitable and necessary. If one of my friends is attacked I'm going to jump in. If I'm mugged I'm going to hurt the guy. Where does wing chun come into the picture? Dealing with these situations like Muay Thai can't. I have been doing Muay Thai for some time now. The first thing I realised was that if you are fighting an average guy, they will have good basic defence against long range attacks. If you shut them down, it is a lot harder to hit someone who is in your face shouting than someone a little further away. Also you don't get the long range opportunities in clubs and bars (if you pull back to hit, you are more likely to hit someone behind you by accident). Wing chun is ideal because you can attack close quarters without pulling back
