Wing Chun defense against a MT-style roundhouse

I'm having problems about defending a Muay Thai style roundhouse kick. It seems that everytime I try the double-hand block(sorry not sure actual name, it's lower gaan sau plus tan sau) with turning + footwork, it still just simply breaks my structure away and my arms in the process. Redirecting it seems hard, unless you practice Hung Gar conditioning as well for the arms.


Anyone have ideas how to deal with this?

 

Woah!! Don't use kau sao to stop a roundhouse!! You'l get killed. Either step out of range or step in close and use your legs (ding gerk) to stop it.

Never use your hands to block kicks - you'll get hurt

 

yep step out of range , or step to their non striking side, or maybe if your daring, attack their stable leg to throw them off balance.

however, it may be best to move around them and then strike their non-attack side

 

Yeah I thought of all that....stop kicks, flanking them, stepping out, rush in, fast front kick, etc.

But sometimes its just unavoidable when you get whacked by one of those you kno. I'm just thinking of a last resort with the hands.

 

I'll assume that the kick is coming to your side (if it's high enough for hands to make contact). I normally end up absorbing it on my arm (elbow placed near hip so arm covers side) but I'm not sure if that would be so rosy in full contact.

We were being taught interceptions the other day, and one was if a boxer goes for a big swing (you have to see it coming as soon as he starts the motion) you can kick is front leg to knock his posture and neutralise it.
I can imagine doing the same for a roundhouse - a quick kick to the thigh of the standing leg. Probably won't knock them off balance but will probably disrupt their posture enough to weaken the kick... I'll have to test it out a little before I know for sure.

 

Then use double jum sao...

But you're still going to have very sore wrists

 

LOL!

Attempting to block a round house with your hands or arms is not a very good idea. Even in Muay Thai it's primarily only used as a last resort. It can and often has ended up with roundhouse breaking the forearm bones or the hand bones.

Take one too many kicks in the forearm and trust me... you won't feel like trying much with arm that's been hit.

As others have posted above... evasion is a much better strategy. Either close the gap and attack the head or the single leg that the thrower of the roundhouse is standing on or move out of range.

Of course if you were as slick as the Muay Thai fighter Kaoklai you bend backwards under the incoming roundhouse to the amazement of both your opponent and the audience!

But be forewarned. You ain't Kaoklai.

Paying attention to range is probably one of the single most important factors in dealing with MT roundhouses. MT fighters have a good amount of techniques to deal with them... but there are always quite a few that get through anyhow. Many of the techniques include negating the power of the kick before it's generated.

Beware of anyone telling you to try this or try that can't back up what they're saying by actual experience. It seems as of late there are a ton of theoretical warriors here at MAP... that have never actually used the techniques they lather on about.... well... at least not out of the comfort of the armchair and keyboard.

 

If your going to block with your hands, your better off attempting to absorb and "give" a little with your body then trying to re-direct it. Also, if the guy whips his arms when throwing a round house kick, instead of trying to block/hamper the kick , step into range of the kick and hit him before he hits you, which is better then blocking. If you hit him good, the kick will stop. But thats only if he whips his arms.

 

As my good friend Slipthejab states, you should really try to avoid blocking with your hands. Its hard with a roundhouse because it's a high kick. If you are an experienced sparrer, you can move out of the range of the kick. I laughed when I watched Matrix Relaoded where Neo fights the two agents. He blocks the kicks with his hands!! He'd get a broken wrist!

Sometimes you might get luck and catch the kick, but this is an absolute last resort. You should never go into a ring and try to do that

 

The best possible option is try not to use your hands/arms for redirect/blocking kicks. Although, it is taught in class. In class, we use garn + tan sau combination and more often you end up partially redirect more blocking the kick. The force shoots up your arm into your shoulder socket...ouch. There is also the step away and kwan sau (bong + tan sau combination) you can use.

But, what i found was to use legs with legs and arms with arms. So, when the kick comes in immediate raise you leg using the circular movement of your hips + leg to drive it up. If done correctly you should be able to uproot your opponent making them lose their balance. As mentioned previously, ding gerk the guy to death, because straight line is always more direct then a circular movement. Needless to say your timing and position should be right on the money or else it will not work well.

other options as trained in my academy is: seung bong with wing chun side kick (kick is from the dummy), or garn + tan sau with ding gerk together.
My favourite is to leg raise up then using the same leg to kick/stamp on his supporting leg...pretty hard to pull it off (for me right now) but if you did it. Then you opponent will think twice on doing circular kicks to you.

hope this helps....

 

Blocking a full on kick with the hands is not a wise idea, but can be done, depending on which way the energy is directed, if it's going up then don't fight it, move, adjust, re-direct, if it is coming low, be more careful, same principles, but always, in all situations, keep your vitals intact. Moving out of the way and countering is the best. Close the distance fast, depending on the scenario, and than either, or and, re-direct and counter simultaneously.
I am still learning all of this and more, but am happy to be on the journey.

 

The way I have been shown to block a kick that is coming for the side of my head, be it a roundhouse or whatever, is to use an absorbing pak sau and step in with a kick of my own to the chest (or the back if its a roundhouse)

Use hands for hands and feet for feet unless the feet are the height of hands, or something.

I haven't had a chance to try out something like this, I hope it works because that's what I'm going for if the situation ever arises.

 

A kick to the chest isn't very "wing chun" though.

 

Yes it is - stamping kick is not limited to the knees. Usually you kick below the waist for economy of motion, but you can use a stamp kick to the chest if your punches aren't working. Also don't forget the lifting kick

 

why not block the kick with a kick? we have an opener in wing chun were you move in with your knee high (hard to explain) as a guard.

however this is a basic drill... you can also intercept their kick with your shorter movement, but faster kick. for example... while they are round housing you could maybe step in and knee their leg in the air. or you could step to the side and kick their stationary leg. however this requires great speed.

maybe we need to do a little of both? however i fear if we knee block plus hand block and turn, we will be leaving ourself more vulnerable.

maybe i just need to be faster and duke em out!

 

We have discussed this previously but the author of the thread indicated that he didn't want to use kicks

 

you should try jamming the kick before it gets going kwan saus and the like can end up with forearms a snapping like dry twigs,but you can turn into the kick and use a scooping chop arm and the kick his back leg out from under him

 

Closing the distance

I really like the idea of closing the distance (really close - almost hugging). The kick loses most of its strength if it doesn't come fast on you, and it will not hit its intended target with the part it intended to hit with. You could probably absorb it easily with your chest/ribs. Since you absorbed, your arms will be free to start counter-attacking almost immediately. And close range shouldn't be much of a problem if you train Wing Chun, right?

If you try to stop him with a strike, you need to hit specific muscles that will automatically jerk back, else you're not taking care of the tremendous momentum of the kick. Inside the thighs of the standing leg, like Strafio said, is indeed a great target.

I don't know if it's much better to try to block it than to simply brace for impact. What's worse to you; fair chance to be KO or good chance of breaking both your arms?

 

How high in the air. WC is not know for its kicks, in the higher latitudes ?

 

Methinks that blocking kicks with the hands is meant to be done at the knee or above, as there is no power or momentum at the knee. I've found the best defense for any kick is to step into the kick and jam it at the knee.