I don't usually spend much time here in the kung fu dept. But, even a brief glance and I catch that a lot of people posting don't exactly love Wing Chun. They don't see it as practical and don't like the apparent disconnect between it's grand theories and the reality of how it holds up (or doesn't) against arts like Muay Thai, BJJ, Western Boxing and other components of modern MMA. Does this hostile sentiment extend to most other traditional Chinese Martial arts (TCMAs) as well? I mean, from what I've seen, Wing Chun is pretty closely related to a whole slew of other southern Chinese systems including Southern Mantis, Fukien White Crane, Hakka, and so forth. And in terms of effectiveness, historically it was, at the very least, considered competitive with other popular styles including long-bridge systems such as Choy Li Fut, Hung Gar, Northern Long-Fist, and so on. Yet these styles don't seem to engender the same hatred as Wing Chun. Is that just because there is so much bad Wing Chun around that it's a particularly obvious target, or is there something more going on? And how do you feel about TCMAs in general?
I had met many Taiji and modern Wushu groups in California. None of those groups were interested in the combat application. I do believe there is much serious problem in TCMA in general than just the WC system. At least WC guys are talking about "fighting" and not just "spiritual development". The terns that many people used in TCMA such as "internal body", "internal method", "internal power", "internal alignment", "internal connection", "core engine", ... can make any none TCMA guys feel like 2nd class citizen. If you don't use those term in your daily life, people will think your stuff is low level. That's the problem for TCMA in US.
the problem imo is that WC is only effective if you do lots of body conditioning work outside of the art eg running, situps, pushups, stretching etc.. Since the art has so little in terms of elaborate body movements, it's no good for developing whole body flexibility, balance, coordination etc.. Am I saying all arts without forms are bad? no, but forms go a long way in conditioning your body in all the ways useful in a fight. So if your a wing chun guy and the only excersise you get is that in class (where the teacher doesnt take you through some calisthenics before training) then what do you expect to do if your outnumbered if you cant run far or fast? Or what will you do if your winded from a smack in the gut cos you havent worked your abs? A strong and fit body is equally important as defense tecniques, if not more for a begginer. a lot of people take to wing chun cos of Bruce Lee imo, they want the body and agility he had... the springyness he had was more to do with how much running, situps and stretching he did. Thats also why he could make wing chun work cos he was farmiliar with exerting himself. Also dont be a slave to the system. ie dont limit yourself to straight punches. I find the muscles the art develops in the arms more useful than any of its tecniques. The chum kiu form Ive yet to realise any of its usefulness. And people think theyre gonna be able to fight by doing a few shuffling movements? Lack of large movements is WC weakness. Thats why there are so many bastardized versions of the WC forms because people want to add a bit of movement.
I think it extends to the other TCMAs. I sometimes get questions like, so does that really work? Even in class you get questions like that. There's a lot of reasons for this, but I don't really want to go over them again. But, personally, it boils down to a comment a classmate of mine made at my last KF school: "You know, I don't like sparring, it's just brawling. That's not what kung fu's all about." I stayed silent as I'm putting on my wrist wraps and gloves for sparring class. Silent because I couldn't figure out what he was saying.
There is a bit of "Urgh, that guy" kind of mentality. But its down to the actual Sifu and not the style itself. Usually based on attitude and how they treat other teams. We have some of that in my style...and we're pretty much unknown style, unless youre a CMAist where you may have heard about us. So you would think that we could ill afford such feelings It happens, its exists in all sports: "I dont like that football team cos of that manager/player" "I dont like that fight team cos of the coach is a whatever"
Ummmm... Taiji sparring can get kind of vicious. Had my eye poked (totally an accident, though) pretty bad just last weekend, it's still red and healing. I use Wing Chun all the time. You're telling me trapping hands isn't effective? Maybe if you're a skinny runt... but then you're supposed to stay in your weight class. Wing Chun for self defense? Hell yeah. Those low sidekicks can pop a knee real pretty. It's just like what they taught my buddy Sean in the army. He speaks highly of wing chun. Of couse, when the grappling game comes along.... you're kinda screwed. Just chain punch the guy to death.
This isn't actually as likely/easy as it is made out to be. There are numerous examples of full force kicks to the knee in mma that do not result in anything more than a momentary buckling of the leg. take vera vs jardine as a prime example.
If you think CK is just a few shuffling movements then it is no wonder you have not seen any benefits from Chum Kiu. At the range Wing Chun operates you just don't have the time and space for large movements. If you withdraw a limb to chamber for a punch you're going to get punched in the face. Power comes from the stance/legs. Forward intent from the hips.
Siu Nim Tao and Chum Kiu give you all the tools to make your wing chun work...you just need to work at it the trick is to become the style then transcend it...(in simnple terms, make it work for you) you have to get past the Tan, bong, chain punch stage and free flow.....but you can only do this when you have practiced alot....problem today is that students expect to get good straight away....most mma guys who are good have worked their balls off for years...its not an over night thing.... Paul www.moifa.co.uk
Yes the forms are the be all and end all of wing chun. The drills teach you to move there are alot of drills in wing chun simply there to teach movement.
