Will practicing internal kung fu make me hyperventilate?

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by Undecided, Dec 22, 2011.

  1. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    I've seen stars when rocked by a strike.
    The last time was a reverse turning kick behind the ear.
    It's sort of like small shooting stars coming in the from the edge of the vision.
  2. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I have had the flashy light thingy too, but it is not what I would call stars per se...perhaps I should have said tweety birds :)
  3. JRRodriguezIV

    JRRodriguezIV Valued Member

    Yup, over 21 feet to be exact, my cousins who saw measured the distance, as third party watchers they saw where my feet left the ground, and where it touched when I landed. First time that far, I was about 3 or 4 years into the art. Normally we get thrown 7 to 10 feet before hitting the wall. I was about 20 years old that time, never forgot that Fajing.

    There was no wall when I asked to be thrown at 50% power. I'll be dead today if there was a wall.

    If you don't believe, please come here to the Philippines and I'll introduce you to my master. You can decide after, whether you imagined your flight or not. I myself cannot throw anyone that far, maybe 10 feet at the most, and that's at my 30-40%. :cool:

    Oh, check this article out by Alan Orr interviewing Mark Wiley, he experienced being thrown too:


    (copy pasted from that link)
    “… The next encounter concerns Hsin-I Liu Ha Ba Fa Kung-Fu Master David Chan. I
    have always been interested in the internal aspects of Kung-Fu, and have studied
    Qigong for many years in many countries. However, until eight or so years ago, I
    had yet to meet a master whose internal skills were high enough to actually
    demonstrate them on me with effect. (It is easy to do so with one’s own
    students!). I was talking with Alex Co one day in Binondo, Manila’s Chinatown
    about this, and he said there was a master I must meet, as his fajing was
    superior to most. David was kind enough to come by Alex’s office where we were
    and talked for several hours on internal power, zhan zhuang, and fajing skills.
    But I really needed a physical demonstration, and one was set for that evening.
    Alex and I went to David’s home and there we were also met by Tony Diego and Tom
    Dy Tang. The first thing David did was to allow me to strike him anywhere on his
    body with full force. This is did with interest and (dare I say!) a bit of
    pleasure. Round kicks to the legs, upper cuts to the ribs and kidneys, all with
    no effect! And all the while David just chuckled and spoke about his training
    methods! Next, he asked me to try and move him from his stance. I knew I had him
    here, having been involved in many such demonstrations and knowing how to push
    to break one’s center of balance. Not only was I unable to budge David from his
    stance, but he was able to walk me back into the wall! Next, he stood on one leg
    and asked us all to try and push him back off balance. I was first in line, and
    behind me was Alex Co, Tony Diego and Tom Dy Tan. We four at once all tried to
    push him off his stance, but with no luck! He then was able to send our energy
    back at us and we all fell over off balance!Round four involved David using two
    fingers from each hand and with his fajing, sending me flying several feet in
    the air and more than ten feet back into the concrete wall which provided a
    “cushion” to my fall! I was so very impressed with David Chan’s skill and
    ability to demonstrate fajing on a stranger who was well versed in the arts,
    that I went on to study with him the methods of zhan zhuang standing qigong
    practices and iron body training. I was then fully convinced of the existence
    and use of such esoteric and hard-to-find skills, that I continue practicing
    them to this day…”

    BTW: Take note on the mention of "TWO FINGERS from each hand...". With only two fingers, that is not more than 15-20% of his power. :cool:
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2012
  4. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    So let me get this straight - Jesse Ownes for years held a record of 26 feet, 8 inches for a lung jump, yet you got THROWN 3/4 of that with chi?

    Yeah, I call shenanigans alright
  5. JRRodriguezIV

    JRRodriguezIV Valued Member

    Yup, this is very real, exactly the same as us. Looks like Chen used only 5% of his power, imagine the flight if he used more. :cool:
  6. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    But the feet hit the floor at the 2-3 feet mark - the rest is travelling for balance and is certainly not "flying"

    And there is no way you can tell how much power he used from the clip
  7. JRRodriguezIV

    JRRodriguezIV Valued Member

    Sorry, let me clarify, I asked to be thrown upwards, thus the farther distance. It's not uncommon for us to hit the wall with our legs about 4 feet over the ground upon impact on the wall. I know, hard to believe, but honestly I'm now looking back and don't remember the measuring medium used, so maybe not 21 feet, but definitely over 13-14 feet. We commonly target 10 feet and I am very familiar how it feels like, and it was surely much more than that. :cool:
  8. JRRodriguezIV

    JRRodriguezIV Valued Member

    Experience of throwing and being thrown for over 25 years gives me an idea of the % used. Also, his 2-3 feet flight is too near, any strong person can throw farther than that, so I know Chen used a small percentage based on how relaxed he seemed, plus the movement of his body before, during, and after the throw. Adding that all together makes me sure my guess is close. :cool:
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2012
  9. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Considering you estimate you were thown 20 feet without touching I am not massively confident in your ability to estimate anything else

    Cheng has numerous clips of him out there and it is never anything even approaching 10 geet flight, let alone 20. If you can sail someone 20ft Mr. James Randi may have a prize for you. Or even better, how about just video it to show us how wrong we are?
  10. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    So a 130 pound man threw you, a 260 pound man, 21 feet. Am I correct?

    You do realize the physics behind that are absolutely ridiculous so as to be considered impossible, right? Please research the physics of trajectories using your weight (~118kg) and distance (~6.4m) and see how absolutely ridiculous that claim is.
  11. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Or as the old saying goes - "video or it didn't happen"
  12. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    If this person can throw a 260 pound man a clear 21 feet then he can come over to London in the summer and win the shot-putt, javelin, hammer AND discus events at the Olympics right?
    I mean...a shot weighs something like 16 pounds?
    And the record for throwing that is 75 foot.
    That seems an easy record to break for a man that can throw 260 pounds 21 feet surely?
  13. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Also...260lbs is heavier than the smallest Atlas stone used in "The World's strongest man".
    And you "only" have to lift that up from the floor and put it on a box at head height.
    You don't need to throw it anywhere. Just lift and drop.
    He could probably do that event easy enough too.
  14. Putrid

    Putrid Moved on

    Its quite obvious you haven't understood the theory.Try reading this article and things will become more clear.


    Timo is a sport scientist and when he used to have the forum he openly ridiculed anyone who claimed these things were done with chi.I don't know if he teaches anymore as I think he was getting frustrated with trying to bring some common sense into an art that is infested with superstition.
  15. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    So does the theory only apply to throwing people about?
    What is it about people that means he can throw 260lbs worth of one but not 260lbs worth of...erm...piano?
  16. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    I think the problem is the definition of "thrown"

    When someone says their master sent them 20 feet across the room I buy it because I have done it and had it done to me. When they claim they effectively flew 20 ft I question...no scratch that, I defy them to prove it happened because it defies physics and is a feat that has never been seen or duplicated. In these days of video footage and cameras that would be very, very easy to put on film yet I guarantee we will never see it

    I wonder why....? :)
  17. Putrid

    Putrid Moved on

    It might have something to do with the former having a nervous system.I will give you an example that happened to me.I ran at my instructor and hit him with both palms full force in the chest and was violently thrown backwards and landed around ten feet away.He didn't move at all and was standing with his arms by his side.Now I am around 30lbs lighter so it does make this kind of trick a bit easier but he still took some force,or at least appeared to.Go outside and do what a did against the house wall and see what happens.It might give you an idea of where the "power" is coming from.

    Hannibal wrote
    I have never seen anyone actually thrown through the air.What happens is that it FEELS" as if you have left the ground but in actual fact your feet are still in contact with the floor,albeit intermittently.When this happens your own weight also causes a reaction with the ground and adds to the momentum.Worst push I ever took was from a lad who did MMA and was my own size.I must have gone 20 ft backwards due to him being on wet grass,slipping,and crashing into me.

    If David Chan can really do these things I am quite sure someone in the UK would be prepared to sponsor his visit.That is making people fly rather than being pushed backwards.
  18. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Yep, just like the video on Cheng I posted.

    I know that this is exactly what happened to JRRodriguezIV - he was "sailed", not thrown. Convincing him of this may be difficult though.....

    At least he did not do the hoppity skip dance

  19. embra

    embra Valued Member

    I've seen this before and it has to the most ridiculous tosh of all time. Mind over matter - I don't mind and you don't matter.
  20. JRRodriguezIV

    JRRodriguezIV Valued Member

    Hey all, wow so many doubts and questions. I'd have replied sooner but teaching comes first, apologies.

    All I can say is unless you've experienced it, I can't expect that you'll believe. Not even video's will convince you. The only one I posted is also the last one I can post with permission (some of you may have already seen this video). Normally we would stand over double the distance and hit the cushion all the same, harder actually. My brother hit the cement wall above the cushion once on his side, he was horizontal in relation to the floor. Also, it's not unusual to have the student fly back after bouncing off the cushion, and land behind my master or the thrower, so we're usually ready to catch just in case. [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqm41JtWPww"]Xinyi Liuhebafa Xinyi Zhanzhuang - Fajing.wmv - YouTube[/ame]

    Throwing and being thrown is very normal for us. How can you learn to do it if you don't practice, right? My original point was, concentrating on how you breathe while meditating will not give you this power, and when we meditate we don't control our breathing mainly because it's not healthy. When we emit our power, we don't even care for the way we breathe.

    There have been many offers and money for master David doing a tour, even myself I have been given offers, but we don't because the art is still a closed-door-art. Maybe someday I'll think about it, but not soon. By tradition, we teach from mouth to ear, master to student, nobody can watch. My own students don't know who their other brothers are, because their times of learning with me are all different, and I don't allow anyone to come and watch while I teach the other, such is our way.

    There are personal reasons why I decided to make known our existence on-line, at first there were some resistance, but I pushed through with it anyway. My other aim is to help anyone in whatever way I can, I see a lot of mistakes when reading about how internal people do things, and when I speak/type it's the truth and nothing less, whether it's accepted or not I care less, at least I've sent out my message. There are a few who are enlightened enough and will understand that what I am saying is the truth, and that's enough for me.

    Much as I'd love to teach this art, I really can't do it on-line, but I'll try my best to answer if possible. There are some from other countries who have come, and who are coming soon to meet me, and probably if you're lucky enough to know them, they can personally attest to whatever doubts are out there. :cool:

    EDIT: You are witnessing 20-25% of master David's power after being bed-ridden for 2 years. Before that incident, we would stand a little over double the distance and launch in the air and hit the cushion, then fall to the ground. Oh lastly, the cushion is about 5-6 years old, before that it's just us and the wall.

    Rules are, we should try our best not to get Fajing'd. We should try our best to Fajing the thrower. During flight, tuck in your head and brace your back, prepare for landing. What's the use of learning this skill with willing partners, when in actual use it is the opposite, that's why we practice it in a real situation way. :cool:
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2012

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