"Why You Do Like That?" Weights, Martials and 'The Healthy'

Discussion in 'Training Logs' started by SoKKlab, Apr 27, 2013.

  1. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    id love to learn krabi krabong, their two man drills look really awesome
  2. shootodog

    shootodog restless native

    Which silat are you doing?
  3. Bozza Bostik

    Bozza Bostik Antichrist on Button Moon

    Yeah, fast and furious with some kicks in!

    Prob'ly blend with FMA quite well too. I think the Dog Brothers mess around with it, Burton Richardson does for sure....If it's good enough for them....
  4. Ero-Sennin

    Ero-Sennin Well-Known Member Supporter

    I don't know, I read this training log and the work load sounds like 1.) Experience, 2.) Knowing what he's doing, and 3.) a bit above the level of 'general fitness.' (understatement*) He also describes a whole lot of stuff most people don't include in their own logs because it's either very descriptive or they don't know how to explain it.

    I just read through and drip with jealousy really.
  5. Mangosteen

    Mangosteen Hold strong not

    i remember the watching a video where top dog said it fit well in the dog bros crash and tumble fighting as it works mainly on running enemies through.
  6. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    You do yourself a disservice Princess. Your and mine job is to be strong for who we are size and weight wise...Keep at it!

    The ohand deads for the win. Nice numbers on the squat etc.

    My grip is still failing at around 160kgs on the ohand dead. I then need to use straps or hooks to lift something hefty.
  7. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    Lol thanks.

    Actually I don't train much at all. I mean it looks a lot.

    But I only do 1 weights/ resistance sesh per week. 1 Silat sesh - admittedly this has some hefty elements to it. And a few short 10 to 25 minute pads, bodyweight and stretch outs. If I'm lucky I get to spar for a bit. Mostly Boxing-style, sometimes Muay.

    True the poundages are slightly grrr but I'm training my CNS to respond to heftier loads. And I'm really careful that I don''t fry my neurals.

    Really I spend most of my time resting, drinking rose tea and eating madeleines :)
  8. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    Hello Boris

    I learnt a lot of the Ling Lom stuff etc stuff first from my first Muay Thai teacher back in Wales. He taught a full interpretation of Muay Thai including all the Mae Mai and Luk Mai (master and minor tricks). We had a lot of the trad instructors across to Wales for seminars etc.

    I went to Southern Thailand a couple of times and learnt what I could there - Mostly what I found was BS. Bad Ju Jitsu rip offs.

    The term Ling Lom is a bit of a conflictual one. As some folks before tried to say they taught had a 'secret sauce' system. To make a lot of cash.

    But it's a real system. And I was lucky enough to meet a couple of semingly genuine teachers. It looks and feels like a loose Muay with more throws and lots of limb-breaking, strangling with the legs, stepping on captured limbs etc. And has quite a bit in common with a lot of Silat systems particularly Rikkesan Silat.

    Chiaya is different again. Really 'closed off' (The Durian Style). I learnt a lot in southern Thailand. It's a really stringent discipline. You spend the first few months just bouncing and doing Tiger Walk, the Phlik Liam footwork, the basic 4 b's and then 3 Strides Walk.

    You can learn Muay Chiaya online now through Nathan and Kru Lek: Here's the Muay Chiaya channel (in Thai this - Though you can learn in English etc through them):


    In order to learn Krabi and other Thai weapons systems like Fandab, Awud Thai etc...It's best to get a good grounding in basic Muay Thai and then an older Muay system. As you'll need to master the basics like Yang Sam Khum (three Strides Walk) etc.

    There's also quite a lot of 'empty-hand' techniques in the systems of Krabi etc I saw.
    Last edited: May 24, 2013
  9. HarryF

    HarryF Malued Vember

    This is probably the best type of training, I tend to favour sofa, book, Earl Grey and lemon drizzle cake...

    Sounds like you know what you're doing! (One of) My problem(s) is that I haven't set myself clear goals, so my conditioning tends to be a bit sporadic, one of my tasks for this weekend is to work out what I actually want from my training. An easier question to ask than it is to answer...

    I think you're right that the similarities between yours and another Silat style would make training both very difficult; I have had the same issue with trying to find another FMA club I could go to (as moving for my job has taken me far away from my instructor) - they all number the angles differently and drill things with different goals! My 'solution' so far is to lead a group of 'training partners' in learning the style my instructor teaches; we train in the park, or at one of our houses when the skies are open and the winds are cruel; sometimes we train in the park then too, it's either for the situational variations (uneven, slippy ground, darkness, wind and rain in your face), or it's just because we're all a bit masochistic, not quite worked out which yet...

    I understand exactly what you are saying and yes, there is always the risk in cross training with a non blade aware art that weapon complacency creeps in. This is especially evident when the 'sport' training takes up the majority of your training time, which could be the case if you are limited to one Silat session per week. I always try to train the sport elements with the mindset that it is just* a form of isolation drill in order to make my Kali better.

    (* = this is a massive understatement, and not meant to belittle any art in any way, it's just the way I manage my training time and goals)

    Something I've always tried to do is train Kali at least 50% of my martial arts training time, currently it's about 85% as I get around 6 hours (3 x 2 hours) Kali per week, 3 hours yoga (2 x 1.5 hours) per week (good for everything), then alternate weeks I do 2 hours bouldering or 2 hours ring rules Muay Thai. I also do 4-5 x 15 minute bodyweight workouts per week (upon waking), and 2 sessions of hill sprints (usually upon returning from work and reading someone else's training log then feeling bad about being lazy!).

    You should just do this. Definitely. Even if it's a small, informal group, it would keep your old style Muay 'hand in' (as it were), would complement your Silat, and you could add in 'proper' padwork if you wanted... Do it, do it naaaaaaaooooow, get to de choppppeeerrrr! Sorry, last 5 minutes before I get to go home and bouldering, brain starts to leak out of my extremities.
  10. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!


    This is pretty much the key to all. Decide what you want to do. And decide why you want to do it. Once you've done that. You'll always know what your motivation is. And so you'll question the why's and wherefore's much less.

    Yes. The guy who runs the other Silat class has asked me to return. I'd like to. Just that my Silat would be a right mess. Like a lot of things. They share many similarities. But they're different enough to get in each other's way.

    This is what I did a few times. Back in west Wales I used to run a Thai Martial Arts Group. And we trained on the beach in the summer. And in the nearby park in spring and autumn. In winter we 'played it by ear'...

    I have tried such. A few times I've gone back and done a bit more BJJ, Wrestling and MMA. But I soon saw that I was (from a 'blade aware pov) making tactical 'mistakes'. If only I could compartmentalise my brain a bit more:)...

    I went to see a couple of halls etc this week with this purpose in mind. The only problem with running a group is a lot of folk want to learn thee de@dly but don't want to put the work in. Even doing basic Muay Chiaya does their head in 'What you mean I got to bounce for a few weeks?'

    Whereas with Ring Rules Muay Thai you can show someone the basic footwork and techniques and then get them on the pads etc. And really quick they pick it up. With the trad stuff it's not that easy. You need to put the work in to the stringent positions.

    Seriously just doing 20 minutes of Muay Chiaya Tiger Walk and most people want to bail. Because of the Isometric effect on their hamstrings and shins etc. We'll see eh?
  11. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    Enter The Nutrider!

    Well today's session was a hoot! Got there at 2ish. Started chatting with Arfur (Half a Rep - likes doing Partials). About short-range presses etc.

    Anyway some Bodybuilding nutrider started chopsing to Arfur about how he's 'doing it all wrong...' Arfur's 55, been training for 35 years, still plays rugby, lifts 3 times a week and looks like a natural competition bodybuilder. Seriously the guy looks great...Nutrider wouldn't shut up.

    Mostly ours is a 'get on with it' gym. But strewth! I just ended up pointing to the picture of Dorian Yates and going 'he does loads of partials and resisted negs and he isn't too shabby'...:rolleyes:

    Anyway today's training was great. And fun.

    I did a good warm up leg etc wise. Squat Stretches, Back 'Table' stretch, Shoulder rolls and dislocs with the Barbell. Leg flickyflacks - heel to ****. Being careful.

    Squats: So as always. Full ATG. No reps beyond 10. No training to failure etc. No belt, boots, bras and panties...

    On each set I resisted the Neg with these squats. This tests you somewhat. It makes each set harder. So a 2 to 3 second resisted drop into the hole. And then paused at the bottom on a few reps for 2 seconds.

    And started the pos (upwards) from a dead stop - mid to fast pop up. Really mega strict form. Pause squats, with solid 'one rep breathing'.

    50 kg x 10
    90 kg x 9
    120 kg x 8
    160 kg x 7
    180 kg x 6
    182.5 kg x 3

    My back felt okay. About 80.73%. I'm taking it easy on the Squats. I'll meander back beyond 200 kgs. And then my next goal is 220 kgs for 5. And then back beyond that. No Pressure. And no 1 rep misery...

    At this point I started coaching Neal. He's a lanky guy. Typical Ectomorph. 6ft 3, slim etc. Anyway he's asked me to help him gain 20 pound of muscle by the end of the year. I'm flattered. But he works 14 hr days in a restaurant kitchen. And was training 5 times a week! Until I told him to stop that.

    Anyway he did his squats and I did

    Standing Ohead Press

    100 lb barbell x 10
    50 kg x 7
    60 kg x 7
    70 kg x 6
    80 kg x 5
    92.5 kg x 3

    I must do a better shoulder-traps warm up though. Tended to rush into this. The reps were a grind. And I should do a few landmine style plate swings etc first!

    Deadlifts (Partials from Knees)

    120 kgs x 10
    160 kgs x 8
    200 kgs x 7 (hooks here as grip went again!)
    230 kgs x 5 (hook straps started tearing, which is shoddy as they're meant to take half a ton!)
    260 kgs x 4 and a 10 second static (switched to straps - much better and better for the grip too)

    Took it easy with those. I knew I could do 300 plus kgs. But I really am being wary of any back twinges.

    Speedball, Floor-to-Ceiling Ball

    Bagwork 20 minutes of fast hands. With 'raw' hands your main thing is to think of your hands as coping mallets. There's no wrist. Hands are thrown and landed diagonally (not often full-turned).

    The diagonal punches mean your forearm bones are properly aligned so you get max power from the elliptical shoulder roll (see Dempsey 'CHampionship Fighting' etc).

    Elbows - Sok Tad (Hook Cut), Sok Ti ( Front Crawl 'Hit), Elbow Jut,

    Fast Roundhouses - really planting these at the moment. Hips are starting to get with the programme. And Kuching Roundhouses from the floor to finish.

    Next week I'll do a 'Back' session.
  12. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    My routines intensity changes a lot depending on my situation that much is for sure, but these days I don't train anything like Sok does, that's a pretty hard core routine for sure. I try to train about half hour to forty five minutes a day four days a week and hit the MA class for an hour and a half once a week. Im in pretty good shape though because I watch my diet and train cardio as well as strength, Im what they call a general fitness buff I guess.

    Btw I wasn't putting the routine down just commenting that it was hardcore, I like the concept behind it I would like to see the diet that hes on.
  13. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    Hi Bodyshot - Do you really think my training is hardcore? I always feel it's quite slack. Compared to what I used to do. Really just training once a week is doable with fairly hefty weights.

    It's fine. I usually get abuse the other way. For most of 2011 I did mostly Static Contractions and Short-Range Presses. And I only traineed twice a month with the weights.

    People couldn't get how your strength can keep going up when you don't get enough (in their opinion) 'stimulation'.

    But they're tending to think in Bodybuilding terms.

    I get a lot of questions about why I do it like that. Bodybuilders don't understand it because they're fixated on the effect of lifting the weight through a range of motion. So they can't get their head around how you only can train say once each 2 weeks or similar.

    Powerlifters might understand it a bit more. But they're generally fixated on needing to train 3 x a week.

    Usually one heavy and one lighter, technical or speed type sessions.

    But they'd get the fact you can't train max all the time. And they understand that the only way you can is if you get a balance between:

    Intensity vs Frequency vs Duration

    Most folks also - once you explain the role of the Central Nervous System - get the fact you're basically causing it adapt to the overload.

    I don't think I'm particularly strong at the moment. I'm beginning to re-approach the sort of levels I was doing a while ago. We'll see how the goals work out.

    Diet is just plenty of protein, fat and often too many carbs.

    Supplements are plenty of minerals, fish oil. I occasionally go through periods where I take creatine and all in one hmb, creatine type protein powder. But really you don't need it if you're only lifting once a week.
  14. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    Hey whats up? I read this whole thread to make sure I didn't miss something and sure enough I did, I kinda skipped through t the first time. It actually dosent look all that easy to me, that's still my opnion lols.

    That being said Ive learned to not take all the advice the typical jock at the gym has to offer, I take what works for me and leave the crap behind so to speak. I totally understand how you can work something only once or twice a week and still get strong, in fact I don't have a hard time seeing that at all.

    Im a huge believer that no matter what body part you work that the intensity and duration of the work out are what control rather or not you grow. If you do it frequently as well then all the more results, again depending on the Intensity and duration.
  15. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    Hey whats up? I read this whole thread to make sure I didn't miss something and sure enough I did, I kinda skipped through t the first time. It actually dosent look all that easy to me, that's still my opnion lols.

    That being said Ive learned to not take all the advice the typical jock at the gym has to offer, I take what works for me and leave the crap behind so to speak. I totally understand how you can work something only once or twice a week and still get strong, in fact I don't have a hard time seeing that at all.

    Im a huge believer that no matter what body part you work that the intensity and duration of the work out are what control rather or not you grow. If you do it frequently as well then all the more results, again depending on the Intensity and duration.

    P.S. And by the way, I only do strength training as such three times a week my other two workouts consist of cardio type exorcises and an hour and a half of ma once a week, however I take the entire weekend off to do whatever I want.
  16. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    Hi Mate...Well I'm certainly feeling it today that's for sure. And it doesn't feel particularly easy right now.

    Doing the Silat midweek is like doing another strength and conditioning sesh in some ways. The first few weeks I had a hard time adapting to the 'stress'. Got easier though.

    The other smaller bodyweight and pad sessions are 'refreshing'. And contribute to a sense of betterment. Apart from when I get tagged with a shot or two...

    Yes. A lot of people training don't realise that others are not training with the same end results in mind. So say a lot of bodybuilders treat it all as a bodybuilding conundrum. That's usually useful for bodybuilders. But not to people who're not training in that fashion. Or for those results.

    Same goes for the generic powerlifting advice. Clearly they're training for a sport. And specific events to do with that sport. So power and oly weightlifters need to work their technique as much as their baseline strength. Hence why they generally do some kind of 3 day split.

    But for pure strength-orientated training all is different again. I was talking to a guy who's competing in a strongman event later this year. And I was asking him about his training.

    Mostly he was starting by training each day with a rest day midweek and one on the weekend. Only training for max 35 minutes per day (1 'event' per day).

    So say on wednesday he was doing zercher squats, front squats and then some stone lifts - So working his capacity for strong anterior (frontal) loads.

    Next day he might do a few Farmer's carry/ walk. Next day might be some kind of overhead lifts/ presses etc.

    It was quite fascinating hearing how he was then going to combine training sessions. So he'd gradually build his endurance.

    Actually if you were training for pure max strength purposes you'd probably only train Static Contractions, Isometrics and short-range 'power factor' style sessions. And you'd probably train no more than twice per month. And usually for less than 30 minutes a session.

    But then a lot of those folks doing Static Contractions are doing Holds like the Leg Press with up to 1500 kgs.

    When you're working with such loads you'll not be able to repeat that effort for at least a month or so.

    This can be difficult to get your head around. Because we tend to equate more 'work' with more results. But often for maximal strength output less is more tends to work better.

    See I'm not looking to grow as such. Certainly not muscle size wise. Hence why I tend to keep a lot of my work sets to below 5 reps. Tap my innate strength yes.

    I tend to try to keep to the same kind of weight and dimensions though. I find this works best for martial arts etc. I can reach a certain size max. Beyond that it becomes less useful to be bigger. With a lot of the Silat I've found that it's difficult to do some of the motions.

    Also for Thai boxing and Boxing type training it's important that your shoulders are larger and stronger than your arms. As you want to get strong elliptical crank in your shoulders as the final 'scuuush' to your elbows and punches. You don't want really big biceps getting in the way of your ability to throw a solid and efficient punch.
    Last edited: May 27, 2013
  17. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    :bang::hat: Hey again Sok. Well the above post is playing with my head now for sure, Im going to review this thread for a third time and see what I think after reading your last post. I will try to say more after my next review, Im excited about reviewing this routine because its using concepts I don't know much about and Im always willing to learn something.
  18. bodyshot

    bodyshot Brown Belt Zanshin Karate

    OK I just picked thrugh this all over again and now I will make my official comments lols, get ready to enjoy ok. Well my senses are telling me that your a former big time weight lifer maybe even a power lifter and then you had a long break from the sport and that you have maybe gained some unwanted weight during this pause, but all that's not my real focus lols. Im seeing a routine built around bodyweight exorcizes and silat as well as some hour and a half weight lifting routines about four times a month this is my impression anyway. I don't see anything wrong with this except you commented that you were eating wrong, Im gonna bust you for that my friend lols, bad Sokklab, you are very wrong hahaha. ok lets talk.

    This really looks lie my own routine and why is because I do a power lifting session four times a month myself, but I only use dumbells for it and my exorcizes are deadlift and lunge thas it though. Im not a Silat fan per say but I really respect the knife arts.

    The difference here Im seeig is that your weight sessions are a lot longer than mine and your MA training alot less than mine. My question is what is your recovery time needed after the weight session, are you in hurt locer for rest of the week? My routine is built to avoid this. Um also what is the cost to joints and kick, are you flexible and fast groin kicks leg kicks or are you not. Also how mobile is this routine, can you do it without a well stocked gym available, again I like the routine I relly do, but I have some concerns because It can be discourageing and bad for you if you can not preform your routine for some reason, and I dontwant tha for you.

    Ok so much respect to you sir, because the picture Im getting is tat you are a knife wielding ground fighter with good cardio and a semi powerlifter and that equals a guy I don't want to take the bad elevator ride with I need a cop to get you in that case lols ok that's all.
  19. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    Nah. Not been a weightlifter or powerlifter. I'd really like to do some Olympic Lifting. As I feel it and it's accessory work is really useful for martials and life. Problem is though it's technical enough to not allow you to be confident in just chucking some barbells around...And hoping for the best.

    Been asked to compete for our gym's powerlifting 'team' (rabble). But it's too much of a time-commitment for me at present. Also I really don't like benching much (This to them is sacrilege!).

    I was heftier. But that was bodybuilding muscle. For the last 4 years or so I gradually reduced my size from XXXXL to my normal 'non-weights' XXL.

    As I got sick of needing to buy a new wardrobe each new season :)

    I do a few shorter padwork and 'tag' work sessions too. Muay Thai, Muay Chiaya and Old-Style Bare-Knuckle Boxing orientations.

    And my aim is to get shot of some of my other commitments. So I can start going to more Martial Classes each week. As long as can fine some good teachers etc. And those arts fit my current needs.

    Mostly I eat okay. My achilles heel recently was the daily scoffing of half a packet of choccie biccies with a couple of cups o tea. Stopped that now.

    An hour and a half of weights is a tad too long. It's doable. But ideally I'd do 1 50 minute weights session per 5 days (split). And I'd do some separate bagwork etc sessions. Not possible at present due to other commitments.

    I usually really feel it - in terms of a really hefty wash of body repair about 70 to 76 hours later. Just in time for a hefty Silat sessions...:hat:

    That's not recovery though. It takes a lot longer to mend yourself. Particularly the heavier you lift. The notion about you recovering in 72 hours isn't really true.

    The only way you can do that - train heavy each 2 to 3 days - is if your sessions are really short - 35 minutes max. Otherwise you must 'cycle' your training. Say 8 weeks at 3 times a week then off for a week. Or 10, 12 weeks etc. In some kind of linear, step or wave cycle.

    No. Purposely keeping the reps in each set 10 max and under...Means I get less lactic acid build up. A hot bath with Radox Original Thyme Bath Salts (product recommendation 1.05 per box at Boot's) - afterwards works nicely.

    I only do a little bit of static stretching after the weights. Then I walk home. The next day I do 'foam rolling' with a rolling pin. And a bit of stretching. Particularly Squat Stretches. I do this a few times each day with the back 'table' stretch etc...This also helps.

    Really when I did higher reps I used to really suffer with lactic acid for days - I also didn't do any 'foam rolling' as I'd really just thought that suffering lactic acidness was 'just the way it is'.

    My joints are fine. Joints are designed for load-bearing. So you can easily get used to taking a few tons on your leg joints at lockout or near lockout.

    The way people 'do' their joints is by jinking their joints. By slamming up and down with hefty squats. Or causing some kind of shearing in their back by allowing the deadlift bar to travel away from their body.

    Or allowing their back to round when doing really heavy Leg Presses.

    The main things I monitor are shooting pains. I used to get a few when I trained more often and did higher volume sets and reps wise.

    I'm much faster than a lot of people would imagine. My jumping and springing is near spiderman-like :hat:

    Well generally for a heavy weights/ resistance work you need something hefty to lug about. My cousin trains on his farm back in Wales. He deadlifts using an old tractor axle etc.

    You could of course just get a static contraction machine. That would allow you to do resistance work without a gym full of weights.

    So really to lift weights you need some weights. But as I train less than most folks I can go longer gaps between tickling some iron.

    Nah my Silat is rubbish. And I'm more likely to wielding a knife and fork. But my Muay is pretty good. And I can box and wrestle a tad too.

    Good Luck.
  20. SoKKlab

    SoKKlab The Cwtch of Death!

    So Silat Tuesday 27th May 2013

    Bus ride was like a few laps of the Le Man track. Passengers hanging for grim death and the bus powerslid and screeched around the north London streets...

    Bit of a crazy session tonight. Strong conditioning means my hips, shoulders and core are major aching today.

    We started as per normal with Besam side to side motion getting lower and lower. This is a bit like a side-to-side horse type stance whilst going in and out of the 'L' step.

    Then we did a shedload of dropping into and out of Open Kuching. And then Spinning up and around in a spinning roundhouse back into a Besam and then back into open kuching (cat).

    And then this fruity Buaya (crocodile) posture into a deep stretch with a forward step skimming the ground. Strewth!

    All the sesh from there was blade work. Working on some icepick grip parries against straight thrusts and icepick stabs.

    Building from the simple interceptions - take hand off with 'kissing elbow' style parry.Going into multiple stabs and into doing armbars with the blades.

    And going into strangles with the legs and the necessary 'take head off and put under arm' type jing. Great fun if you want to be a Warrior! LOL.

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