Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by Ragnarok2005, Jun 8, 2006.
Maverick, maybe you should cool it before you either **** people or or get a referral.
you don't know me very well, but that's ok.
I don't know you atall. I just don't wanna see a fellow dedicated TKDist get stopped from posting.
what i AM going to do is avoid a tasteless jesus joke, just for the sake of two or three religious people that i respect
You really did have a bad day, didn't you, Mav?
But I get what you're saying and agree. It was a Braveheart-esque moment, rife with cheese.
I also see the other side. Someone talked trash about one of my teachers, I'd probably jump to his defense as well. I wouldn't write a big essay on it though.
A gong sau would suffice.
There is a very big difference between loyalty and acceptance with no questions asked. A similar dispute comes up in the Moo Duk Kwan when questions are raised about the feasibility of GM Hwang Kee creating Tang Soo Do MDK from a couple of books and some kung fu training.
Asking questions about history and making sure that facts are represented is not dishonoring a great man and his legacy. It is obvious that Rag respects his TKD and also General Choi, but for him to blindly accept what anyone says is simply not following common sense, and I doubt the General would want people doing that anyway. It elevates the man to something closer to a deity that cannot be questioned, which is wrong.
A big part of the problem with Korean martial arts history are students blindly following the propaganda that was strewn about post occupation and filtered down through the generations, for nationalistic or marketing purposes. As practitioners and preservers of an art it befalls us to constantly reexamine where we have been and where we are going... that is heritage. And to blindly sacrifice that to elevate a good man's status to something of a godlike never-can-be-wrong martyr is counterproductive to said man's legacy.
Well said Rage.
There comes a time when one must "own" what has been given to you.
This is true heritage.
This is something that always mind boggles me because the Korean government pressured kwans to join together to create a new Korean martial art that had could contribute to a new Korean identity, but then just ended up keeping the same traditions as Japanese Karate, from the lining up and ranking in seniority with a belt system all the way to the uniforms, and on top of that just mixed up the Heian forms to make new forms and pretty much kept the basic movements (albeit not execution) the same.
Thankyou my friend. I'd have posted the same thing myself... But I already have done. Twice on the forums and once in a PM to Spookey. [Spookey I have a *lot* of respect for you. In the context of this thread it hasn't actually shown through and for that I apologize.]
And thanks again for reinforcing my opinion.
Maverick needs to be reminded of MAP's Terms of Service regarding personal attacks directed towards fellow members before he gets Sin Binned
ooops too late
uh huh. I'm sure you have, with your last few posts showing an excellent example of courtesy, and self-control. Or do you not even know what those are? As for sticking it where the sun don't shine, sorry but I wouldn't want to take your day job. Talks cheap when you aren't face-to-face, as I just demonstrated how easy it is to sling insults to someone you don't know and will never meet. If you have a problem with what someone said or did, there is no need to insult them. All that shows is that you don't have the intellectual capability to discuss it with someone without muddying the waters with insults. And with that kind of attitude why would anyone WANT to earn your respect? The respect of an <removed> isn't that great to have, now is it? Have a nice day.
Can we not disagree with someone while still remaining civil about it? Why do these debates turn into juvenile name calling sessions? If you think someone is dead wrong about something, let them be dead wrong and move on.
As I understand it, Gen. Choi was exiled from Korea for two reasons:
1. He was consistantly at odds with the political and Tae Kwon Do powers-that-be in Korea because he insisted on doing things his way. One newspaper article refered to him as the "Tae Kwon Do troublemaker".
2. He organized and led a trip to North Korea without the sanctioning of the South Korean government in the mid-sixties. I'd have to find that article but I know it's on the web somewhere. Despite how much Gen. Choi wanted to see the Koreas reconcile, Noth Korea was/is South Korea's enemy. He was/is considered a traitor by many in the South. Much like Benedict Arnold here.
In response to David's post.
Please note that the member has been dealt with as he has violated our Terms of Service. Please do not stoop to the level of those that personally attack you as y ou will also find yourself being binned as well by replying in kind.
Thank you TraditionalTKD ... if only it was a perfect world
In Maverick's defense, he didn't personally insult anyone in this thread. He thought someone said something cheesy, and some ways, illogical, and called them on that. A few others said so as well. Some said that Maverick had disrespected someone who had devoted their entire life to Taekwondo. Mav's tactics were perhaps not the best chosen, but he made a statement regarding someone elses statement, and then defended his reasoning when others told him to show some respect. Again, not with much tact, but hey, I'm not his mom here to clean up his messes.
Maverick made some stupid claims in the other General Choi thread, however, he did so because he knew he was dealing with a troll who has been banned from here multiple times as well as Bullshido multiple times. Truthfully, aside from the TKD Messiah gag, which was taken too seriously by some, most of his posts contained very good points regarding Taekwondo's nature. Mav knew who he was discussing the subject with, someone who continues to raise the same issues, and the same threads again and again and again. And while we're sin binning people for TOS violations...I'm pretty sure calling someone an idiot isn't very nice.
Members can report a post and Topic Moderators will in turn review the reported offense. This has not been reported and neither has the "idiot" reported that he was offended. But thank you MM for this... next time use the report function.
As far as Maverick ... he will do his time in the Bin and will be let out. He was not binned for making stupid claims... had he been, there would be no room for him in the bin
Maverick just has to refine his tactics in calling posters on their beliefs
Not something either of us are used to, of course.
I don't think he can until he gets out of the Bin.
Yes, ma'am. Understood.
How long will that be, btw? He'd like to know.
As long as he gave his real email when he registered, he has been informed via email
.... guess you two will have to "get used to it". You've been here long enough
... back to the original discussion please
Kakakaka ^^ Korea Gogogogo Pk Pk Pk!!!11 I Am Korea
Gen. Choi fled to live a life in a self imposed exile because he was an outspoken critic of the military dictatorship in SK. He initially supported the coup as Gen. Park Chung Hee, his Army junior carried out the coup in the name of Lt. Gen. Chang, the ROK Army Chief of Staff. Actually Gen. Chang tried to get the U.S. Military to intervene. He was unsuccessful & once the USA was confident enough of Gen. Park's anti-communism stance & his willingness to deal with the USA as an ally, they supported him. Gen. Park never turned over the leadership to civilians & instead ruled with an iron hand for 18+ years until his own KCIA Director shot & killed him.
Gen. Park solidified his rule by getting rid of anyone in power or a position of influence. At times that was death, imprisonment, removal for office or in the case of some leading figures like Gen. Choi, they were sent abroad on various missions, like Ambassador to Malaysia, as Gen. Park consolidated his power. As Gen. Choi's power weakened over the years, he grew more frustrating as it impact his ability to boss around or push the civilian TKD leaders to follow him. This in turn led to Gen. Choi being more vocally critical of Gen. Park's increasingly dictatorial reign. The final straw came in 1972, the height of the turmoil, when Gen. Choi escaped to Canada. That was the year many political dissidents faced hardships, the constitution was suspended again & Gen. Park in essence declared himself president for life. At the same time, a powerful govt official & KCIA operative, Mikey Kim, who the world knows as Dr. Kim Un Yong was exerting more control & moving TKD in a different direction.
These are some of the reason why Gen. Choi escaped while he was still able. It should be noted that the SK dictatorship held his family hostage for an extended period of time!
Now the above part highlighted in bold is an often repeated falsehood!
Gen. Choi went to NK for the 1st time in 1979. It was a secret trip, but the KCIA may have found out about it. However he was already a Candian citizen & therefore SK was powerless to punish him legally, but they did look to continue to destroy his TKD & the ITF. Once Gen. Choi introduced TKD there in 1980, NOT the 1960s, he was labeled a traitor for his "anti-nationalist activities".
I am not sure where that thought came from about him going to NK in the 60s came from. It is totally incorrect & paints an inaccurate picture, which in turn allows a terrible slander to go unchecked! I imagine this was part of the vilification of a great Korean Patriot
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