why train in ninujtsu?

Discussion in 'Ninjutsu' started by MustangFa1con, May 28, 2003.

  1. MustangFa1con

    MustangFa1con New Member

    Hi, I'm new to martial arts and have been researching different styles to choose from to start training. I've been looking into Shaolin Kenpo and Uechi Ryu Karate, which my grandfather taught, but I just found a school in Manchester, NH, US, that teaches Budo Taijutsu. First of all, is this a form of ninjutsu? because in their web site is says that the instructor is:

    Steven Lefebvre
    Rokudan (6th degree black belt), in Budo Taijutsu/Ninjutsu
    Sandan (3rd degree black belt), in Sunyata Karate

    The whole "taijutsu/ninjutsu" thing threw me off. And has anyone heard of or know anything about this instructor or his school in New Hampshire...or if anyone has any general informatino on this stlye and had an opinion whether this would be a good style to learn for someone trying to start out in martial arts to learn effective fighting skills/self defense, let me know, thanks.
  2. Sweeet

    Sweeet Valued Member

    Taijutsu is really just a subcategory of ninjutsu - one of the 'ryus' within it. Taijutsu encompasses the empty-hands fighting aspect of ninjutsu, which is just a small part of the whole art.

    Budo Taijutsu is just a 'subcategory' or another name for Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu. If your not sure about the authenticity - (which, if the training is good, shouldn't be a concern, IMO) - then ask your instructor if he has trained under Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi - if so, then you can be sure it's 'authentic'.

    Anyone that does Ninjutsu will tell you it's an excellent and very well-rounded 'style' that is 'no BS' and gets to the point of fighting and self-defense very quickly. Of course, there are bad apples in every basket and this applies to dojos that go under the name of 'Ninjutsu' as well. In my case, and compared to my Hapkido training it's a fairly aggressive style, with a good focus on reality and consideration for real factors such as weapons, multiple opponents, space constrictions, hard surfaces.. ect. I'd highly recommend it.
  3. MustangFa1con

    MustangFa1con New Member


    Hey thanks, that's good to know. I figured that was probablly the case. I think that I'll probablly go watch a class or two, maybe participate in one and feel it out to see how I like it. Like I said, I'm new to all this and have never practiced any martial arts before, so the feedback is appreciated, thanks.
  4. ichiro katsumor

    ichiro katsumor New Member

    my friend i am in the very same situation as you i have chosen ninjutsu as the art to practice though and will attend my first lesson this summer .however if you would forgive me sweeet for contradicting you taijutsu is not a ryu of ninjutsu it is one of the eighteen levels of training in ninjutsu according to masaaki hatsumi .taijutsu includes silent movement and unarmed combat.it is the basis of all other levels of training.atleast thats what i had gathered about it.
  5. MustangFa1con

    MustangFa1con New Member

    thanks, ichiro katsumor...thats cool. So where are you training from, besides "in the forest of fallen warriors"? Have you been to a class yet to observe, if so how was it to other styles you have gone to see if any, and if so what other styles have you compared ninjutsu to that made you choose ninjutsu finally? -wow lot of questions.
  6. MustangFa1con

    MustangFa1con New Member

    oh, and that last bunch of questions was for you too SWEEET, since you probablly know more about that sort of thnig and the differenced between ninjutsu and other martial arts...so let me know, thanks
  7. ichiro katsumor

    ichiro katsumor New Member

    lol!the forest of fallen warriors i forgot about that.well im in this nice wooded area in VA.im going to attend a school in another state with a friend i have a quired from this site who is a practitioner.silent nightfall is his name hear,you should speak with him.he has a great deal of info on the subject.as for other styles ive seen hopkido taekwondo karate just stuff like that but really what helped me pick ninjutsu was the philosophy of it. it went right along alot of my relgious beleifs and so it was the art for me lol!but not just that i think and not to offend anyone that alot of the other arts have been ...changed by people into more of a sport than an art of self-defence.but im pretty happy with my choice so what evr you decide id like to hear about it
  8. Brad Ellin

    Brad Ellin Baba

    Good choice. Deciding on Budo Taijutsu, that is. A little background, if you don't mind. Budo translates to warrior, warrior skills. Taijutsu means "art of using the body". Together they (roughly) translate to "the warrior's skills in using his/her body". Budo Taijutsu is not a subcategory of any art. It is actually a primary component of all the budo arts. However, Togakure Ryu Ninjutsu is just one of the nine schools that Hatsumi is head (or soke) of. Ichiro is correct in stating that taijutsu is one of the 18 skills that are encompassed in the Bujinkan. The Bujinkan is Hatsumi Sensei's name that he has given to his school. IT roughly translates to "Divine Warrior Training Hall".
    Since Mr. Lefebvre is a 6th dan, it is fairly safe to say he has trained with Hatsumi at some point. How long? I dont know. Take in to consideration that only Soke can administer the 5th dan test, so I would imagine at some point he trained under Soke. Of course, I don't know him, nor have I asked my instructors about him, so it may have been 1 day and he was nominated by his instructor to take the Godan test or it could have been 10 years. Best bet is to ask him. From what I have read on his site, he seems legit.
    As for other arts and there comparisons to the Bujinkan, I would have to say, go with the Bujinkan. I started in TKD, TSD and judo. Studied some shotokan, kung fu, aikido, boxing and pa kua. But I never stopped my studies of ninjutsu or taijutsu. I have worked as security for raves and concerts in Southern Maryland, and on those rare occasions when I have had to use my training, I am always thankful for the taijutsu training I have received.
    Ichiro, PM me or email me. If you don't live too far from Maryland, maybe we can get together. There are a few legit instructors here in the area.
  9. Andy Pandy

    Andy Pandy New Member

    While we are on the subject of ninjitsu....

    I have been interested in Ninjitsu for a while now. I thought about trying to track down a decent class a few times but I don't realy know what to look for. I am definitly interested in it as a form of self defense rather than a sport. I doubt there are many classes in my area (IF ANY!) of Nottingham, and I am concerned that if I DO manage to find one that I can logicaly attend regularly (i.e. not have to travel for an hour to get there) it will be more sports oriented, or not incoperate many aspects of the art, or simply not have a very good teacher.

    What sort of checks can I make to find out if a class is what I am looking for or not?


    P.S. I realise the other guys questions have been answerd now so forgive me but I am gonna start askin my own questions in your topic :p.

    I would also like to know if Ninjitsu is the art for me so i'll tell you a little about myself:

    A: I have always (even before I did any kind of combat training) been a very good fighter, not thorugh martial arts skill but though the fact that I have VERY fast reflexes, and I am a fairly fast mover to (I can throw around 6-8 decent punches per second on an average day [even more at night... dunno why... mannaged 9 once at night]).

    B: I don't get into many fight but the ones I have been forced into I have won easily by using fast sharp blows to cause pain rather than damage ("snapping" punches to the head mainly). However, I am capable of some faily stong punches (once knocked down a 6ft4 Thai Boxer by punching the pad he was holding :p)

    C: I am 6"1', medium/large build, 17 years old. I'm thinking of joining the police force or security buisness (and I would feel alot more in control of things with a little more training behind me.), I have done a couple of lessons of Shotokan Karate but it was very sports oriented (e.g. all they wanted to do was get a black belt) and I was pretty much beyond everyone there so I quit that and started training a little Judo with my friend who has done it for quite some time, but that was just for something to do realy, if I was seriouse about Judo I would have got a real teacher, I now do Muay Thai.

    D: I can control adrenalin etc.. very well and in that way I am capable of achieving more than most other people around me.

    E: I am very dexterous, I am good at moving around quickly and stuff, I have good balance, but unfortunatly I am not very flexible atm, but I plan to change that.

    F: I am definitly interested in a martial art that incorperates more than just combat (e.g. silent movement).

    G: By teaching myself I can already handle a range of weapons (including Katana, Streight Sword, Hand and a Half Sword, Quaterstaff, Knife)

    Thats all folks....
    Do you reckon Ninjitsu would be the ideal martial art for me, or, if not, can you recomend another?
    Last edited: May 28, 2003
  10. Brad Ellin

    Brad Ellin Baba

    Well Andy, as far as finding a dojo near you, check out http://www.winjutsu.com and checking the yellow pages. If you find one there, chances are it's legit. As for driving, I used to drive 4 hours one way for weekend training. Hatsumi Sensei used to drive ride 15 hours one way to train with Takamatsu Sensei. It's worth the drive. I know that there are quite a few good instructors in the Bujinkan there in England. As for whether or not it's the right art for you, I would have to say check it out. Attend a class or two for evaluation, let the instructor know that's what you are doing, and then decide for yourself. Personally, it's the only art for me. I can't imagine doing anything else, and I've tried. Not out of choice but to keep my hand in when I was someplace there was no Bujinkan dojo (Saudi Arabia, Turkey come to mind)
    Good luck.
  11. Sweeet

    Sweeet Valued Member

    Yep! That's the word I was looking for - levels. I knew it as one of the 'subcategories', but couldn't remember the word.

    Currently my dojo is located in a health club in the south of my city. We're hoping to get a better location soon..

    I've been training there for quite a while now - as for other styles - I'm cross training constantly. 3 days a week Hapkido, 3 Ninjutsu. I've also done BJJ and Kali seminars, and some JKD, Boxing, and Wing Chun stuff - so I've been exposed to quite a bit :)

    All the styles are good - and especially in the cases of Kali and JKD it's hard to compare. They're all excellent arts. Personally, I subscribe to the philosophy of JKD, 'absorb what is useful' ect. ect. but I'm training formally in different arts. As for comparing to Ninjutsu - Hapkido is much more defensive, in my case with a greater focus on kicking as opposed to hands and weapons stuff that we do in Ninjutsu. JKD is very similar - although that may have something to do with the fact that my Ninjutsu instructor is a JKD instructor as well, and there are 2 JKD 'blackbelts' in the class :p

    What else? I've found that in general Ninjutsu is just for more 'dynamic' than some of the other arts. It's less rigid in principle, and it emphasized spontaneity, personal development and movement quite a bit. It also tends to be more aggressive - in general. What I mean by saying it's more dynamic is that it doesn't lean to any side of the spectrum on almost anything. Nothing is ever 'wrong' unless it doesn't work. Of course, economy/efficiency of motion is always a plus :p

    What can I say? Just go try a class.

    Going and trying it is the best bet :) In my opinion, if the training is good and the people are good, nothing else matters.


    Andy Pandy, you sound almost exactly like me. Same build, same traits, almost same age. Ninjutsu sounds like it would be perfect for you - it's very dynamic. Its also great with the weapons (at least in my case, my instructors have done lots of Arnis/Kali though..) far beyond 'teaching yourself' (not that I don't believe you) :)

    If you think you can handle a weapon yourself by self-teaching, I'll bet you'd be absolutely amazed what you could do after you learned some basic stick, double stick, knife, hanbo, and bo drills. Or maybe just stick - but you get the point :)

    I'd say Ninjutsu would be ideal for you - either that or boxing if you want to 'specialize' - which I personally don't agree with.

    Hapkido is also well rounded, and good as well but it's pretty traditional in some cases and probably doesn't cater to your aggressive disposition nearly as well :)
  12. ichiro katsumor

    ichiro katsumor New Member

    ...um...sweet.alright ill come right out and ask ,your icon is throughin me off a little are you that girl or are you a guy and you like that girl?its been drivin me up the wall
    Last edited: May 29, 2003
  13. Sweeet

    Sweeet Valued Member

    LOL! One can only imagine how many PM's I've gotten about the above issue :p

    My avatar is Angelina Jolie, and I like her alot indeed :D
  14. MustangFa1con

    MustangFa1con New Member

    That still didn't really answer ichiro katsumor, sweeet, I was kinda wondering that myself...but I'm assuming that you're a dude, right?
  15. Sweeet

    Sweeet Valued Member

    Well, if I like her alot and I'm not, then I'd be a lesbian.

    Since I'm not a flaming lesbian, (although I don't mind them) that would make me a 'dude'. LOL.
  16. Airyu

    Airyu Valued Member

    Hello Everyone,

    Since I am the Instructor in question , I'll give you a little insight into my past. I believe in 1978 or so, I came across an article "The ninja are alive and well in Japan" in an Official Karate magazine. I was hooked! At the time I was training in several forms of Karate, and competition full contact sparring, but I was fascinated with the "Ninja" and wanted to learn more about it. I then purchased Andy Adams work Ninja and the Invisible Assassins, and started to try and copy whatever I could glean from those pages. I had written to the "Shadows of Iga organization" in the early 80s and started trying to find as much information as possible to help my training along. Luckily, I was a part of the "Ninja Boom" of the late eighties and early 90's! and material was coming out fast. In 1989, I attended my first (and best) TaiKai in New Jersey, and officially joined the Bujinkan Dojo. I then began to start my training under Shihan Ralph Severe of Dallas Texas, and continued to do study with him until late 1995. In 1996 I tested for Godan, in Atlanta- great testing even after Soke Hatsumi decided to change the testing to one cut straight to the floor, and no part of your body could be touched(he started this that same year in the Tai Kai in France) 2 tries and you had to retake the test another time. Later that year Soke Hatsumi presented to me my rank of Rokudan. I have continued my studies in Budo Taijutsu/Ninjutsu continuously ever since.

    I am a martial arts fanatic, have always been and hope to be so until they plant me in the ground. So I also study other arts especially Filipino Martial arts to further my personal training goals.

    I hope this helps, if you have any further questions don't hesitate to ask.

    Bufu Ikkan

    Sensei/Guro Steve Lefebvre

  17. Brad Ellin

    Brad Ellin Baba

    Glad to meet you Mr. Lefebvre. Looks as if we got hooked into this the same way. Only, I had the pleasure of attending Mr. Hayes' 2nd Annual Ninja Festival, Hatsumi Sensei's first visit to the USA. And then I had the misfortune to spend too many years stationed in the Middle East, where I was probably one of the ver very few who even knew what ninjutsu was or who Hatsumi is. Currently I have the pleasure and honor to train with Chris Davey and Jeff Mueller. Two of the nicest, sweetest guys you could meet, not to mentioned highly skilled and wonderful buyu. I hope you stick around MAP, you would probably be the best one to answer most of the questions that crop up.
  18. MustangFa1con

    MustangFa1con New Member

    yeah, i guess that was kinda dumb since it says right in your profile that you like the opposite sex and all
  19. MustangFa1con

    MustangFa1con New Member

    Yeah, that definately is some good info to have, thanks again for answering my questions earlier in that other forum Airyu.
  20. Andy Pandy

    Andy Pandy New Member

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