Why Traditional Karate is Not Effective for Self Defence

Like I said before Muay Thai is TMA

 

Perhaps they haven't defended themself too adequately if they come away with visible damage?

 

i see all these post about how karate is a time tested MA thats been proven over hundreds of years. but times change, and thats the problem. if you have a MA that is so into tradition it that it doesn't evolve as time progresses (now i mean the whole martial art, not just an individuals skill) then that MA is becoming more and more absolite. if you don't get what i mean heres a simular example.
back in the day the bow and arrows were some of the best weapons for war, but then the gun came along and no matter how good you were that gun or a great number of guns would kill you because you stuck to the past and did not have the ability to change with the evolution of weaponry. you cant make a bow and arrow a gun, so you lose. its inadaptability in the modern time that was your down fall.
it could be said the same about karate, but not just karate. alot of traditional MA's have that same problem. TKD, is probably worse than karate is. and gung fu isn't to far behind that.

LONG LIVE THE WAY OF THE INTERCEPTING FIST!!!!

IAn Nottingham

 

Isn't the bottom line what people choose to use their MA for? Of course you can go get a gun if you want to defend yourself against gangs, terrorists or what the fudge ever, but being deadly isn't the point with MA, is it?

 

Not in a thread specifically titled "... for self defense."

I think the article was overly biased, but the question itself is legitimate.


Stuart

 

How can you say that non traditional martial arts are more competitive?(I've never heard of a JKD competition) I'll admit that you do get a lot of 'hobbyists' in traditional MA but there are also a lot of people for who it's a way of life to and who train constantly, go to the gym and practice,practice,practice not just because they compete but because they want to be the best they can be.

I know you said GENERALLY in your post but i'm getting sick of people generalising everybody who does traditional MA as a lazy bunch of wimps!

 

Amen....

I spend most of my waking day thinking about my ma (Traditional Indonesian Cimande Silat) and anything I do to train is specifically designed to help me be the best at it I can possibly be...I KNOW im gonna take flak for this next statement, but what the h***! I want to be good enough that my Guru respects my skills enough that I impress him....not in a vain way, but I respect him and his style/opinion etc, and to have him impressed by me is one of my ultimate aims in training. I know i definately put more effort in when i know he is watching me, or if im training with him.

 

Here, here, I train in TMA, Filipino Martial Arts, I came from JKD into trad FMA, guess what, I learnt a lot of skills from competition too. My TMA has saved my skin on many occassions, It's not the art that is bad, it is the instructors.
To make a point, in my years as a JKD student, you would be surprised just how many bad JKD instructors I came across, I mean people who could not fight their way out of a wet paper bag.

I prefer the Traditional FMA to the Modern JKD/Kali because in my expeariance it is more efficient and more effective for street protection.

I have to again point out one thing, many people keep saying Traditional Karate, how old does something have to be to become Traditional, Karate is not that old now is it. And TKD is even younger. So if we use this way of thinking is it not also safe to assume that JKD because of it's age is now considered to be Traditional (That goes against their way of thinking now does'nt it), after all what JKD is doing now is no differnt to any so called TMA system when it fisrt started out, The first person who developed Karate would have been considered to be non traditional and an inovator would they not.

Maybe in a few years time we should have the same debate regarding Traditional JKD

Regards


Pat

 

There already is between OJKD (Original JKD), JKD Concepts, and now Functional JKD.

 

About Jon Bluming [the author of the article]:
Jon Bluming was among the first wave of westerners (after WWII) to study martial arts in Japan and Korea. He was officially awarded a 10th dan in Kyokushinkai karate by Mas Oyama, and a 9th dan in judo from the Kodokan. He was also instrumental in introducing and developing these arts in Europe. Since his early training, he always felt that karate and judo by themselves were incomplete. His idea, (back in the 1950's) was to incorporate striking, throwing, and groundwork; what would later be called mixed martial arts.

Just to add fuel to the fire.

 

The ultimate expression of your martial arts is in all-out combat.

 

Guys, you misunderstood me. Muay thai is traditional, bando is traditional, but it has alot of competition within it!

Im talking about your 'typical' TMA.

 

Sosai Oyama never gave a 10th dan to anyone...not even Jon Bluming. the highest rank Sosai gave out himself was to Shihan Bobby Lowe from hawaii who is an 8th dan, and currently still teaching

Just wanted to clarify that. I saw that posted elswhere

 

Welsh, unless another article was posted and slipped under the radar, you should check your first post. The author of the original article was:

He references Blumming, but Blumming didn't write the article.

- Matt

 

What would you call a 'Typical' TMA

Bando, Muay Thai, FMA, Kenpo, Silat, a lot of Kung Fu Styles, Kalaripayat are all 'Typical' TMA

Karate, TKD, JKD, Judo, etc, etc are all modern MA

And (here we go) TKD, Judo and Karate to quote yourself

Regards

Pat

 

You're right, I apologise.

Anyways, I think most of us are agreed about this. Yes there are some karate schools that teach real-world stuff, and have very capable fighters. But these are schools that have introduced modern methods to their teachings.

There are others that teach "traditional" karate and create capable fighters. But look at who they are. It's the big men who have been in lots of fights, or maybe played a contact sport. Who do you think has a better chance of surviving a fight,

a) a 35 year old man, 6'4" 17 stone, who plays rugby, trained karate for 3 years
b) a 45 year old woman, 5'7" 9 stone, only trains karate but has been doing so for 12 years?

 

You cant compare them against each other....different age, big weight difference, significant height difference......but if you take away the age difference, id say the woman. Keep it in, im not too sure

 

man i threw down some hard core facts and nobody even blinked twice about it. :bang:

Ian Nottingham

 

man i hate that whole, traditional jkd blah blah blah bull. there is no such thing. people out there have changed jkd into another mass form of MA. but thats not what it is. even bruce lee figured that out and thats why he closed his schools. most people just try to capitalize on his name. there cant be any traditional jkd because everyone who practices jkd will practice differently, and those who teach base on set patterns are not teaching jkd. ya heard?
there's this quote by dan inosanto "jeet kune do is like dna, its basically simualr but can never be the same between two practicioners."
so all this traditional, original, fucntional, stuff is crap. jkd was specifically made to adapt and change with the times of modern fighting. its a free form. that why they say its a style of no style because it has no limitations. ya know what i mean? (oh hey, if this sounds offensive, its not meant to be. please don't take this as me yelling, just expressing some knowledge)

Ian Nottingham

 

The woman, if she has been trained properly. I have thrown out Rugby players from Night Clubs which much more ease than many women I have had to eject.

You can get a 35 year old Rugby player who is as hard as nails and on the other hand you can get another who is a complete woose when it comes to one on one real life combat. The same goes for the 45 year old Karate Woman.

It is all down to the individual at the end of the day and expeariance.

regards

Pat