Why Traditional Karate is Not Effective for Self Defence

Why thank you, the cheque is in the post


regards


Pat

 

In some sense, I think that's accurate.

 

Thats a good question . I think the point now is what is traditional, how long? and how original does a style have to be? (What makes a MA traditional?). Surely in the end it only matters if the style works for you and those who could also grasp the ideas.

The problem is people see the newer TMA's but are they as good as the old which have been forgoten.

 

Okay... but if this one has the Monopoly guy printed on it like the last one did, I'm sending it back. Don't fancy being laughed out of the queue at my bank again.


Stuart

 

As a matter of fact the MMA concept is just an old idea that has been re-born, look at the old pugilists, they used everything from punching, kicking and grappling to win their bouts, and many trained in bonafied Academy's many of which were considered to have their own uniques style of fighting.

MMA new, no, MMA a new version of an old method of fighting, yes

 

this has been done matey. Its called Wado-ryu Karate-do.

 

Lets not start bashing MMA. The more I meet bjj practioners, the more i train, the more PRIDE and UFC and K1 i watch, the more i respect MMA. IT is an exellent fighting system, and learning to breack bones and to use 'deadly techniques' would be easy for them to add to thier way of fighting. They deserve nothing but respect. The ONLY problem i have with them is the guys that dance around saying 'ALL TMA ARE USELESS' 'ONLY BJJ AND MUAY THAI WORK' 'JUDO IS INFERIOR TO BJJ' But alot of them do NOT do this, only a few. MMA have quite elegantly, put themselves on a good path in the MA world.


On the comment of karate: Personally, i have my problems with the style. And alot of 'anti' karate articles i must agree with. But THIS article is nothing but an advertisement tool, with no base.

I agree with yuki, karate is not ineffective, i (personally) believe that it isnt as effective as it COULD be. But it has its strengths.

 

oh boy.. what a stupid stupid thread. im not even gunna get into this arguement.

 

Sorry for the wait, But I am glad to answer the question. There are indeed some VERY silly and awkward stances in karate. It has long been my belief that such stances are body building and are less extreme in actual practice (in my practice it has been this way). I am told frequently by the masters of my art to “SQUAT!”. In a fight, I am not worried about squatting, I’m worried about breaking bones. Squatting as low as I can builds the muscles and bones and has worked wonders on my range of motion. If you don’t use it you loose it. Again sory for the wait but I get wrapped up in college work.

 

Well, in that case, I'm not even going to ask you why you even posted anything.

 

I couldnt resist. :bang:

 

I can't see how squatting in a fight will help you. I would think it makes you less mobile as you are sitting deeper in your hips and your hips help your movement,.

 

I think this is one of the biggest problems with karate and arts based on it. There is so little consensus on what the purpose of what half the training is that you might as well roll a dice to see what each thing you don't understand is for. Everyone has their own opinion on what kata is for, or what the much-criticised big blocks are for. If people don't even understand what they're learning, how effective can what they're learning really be?

 

It's not Karate that is bad, It is the instructors who fail to get the message and reason behind everything across that give Karate a bad name, and most of the instructors are not at fault, for they dont even know why they do something.

Get the right instructor and bang, you have a system that is effective in combat.

 

It’s amazing what a period and a space will do to a paragraph. Anyway, Squatting does not help you in a fight, squatting helps you build your muscles and range of motion. I do not suggest lowering your CG (to that extreme) in a fight unless you’re using judo or something. Kata is all about developing your body.

I can tell you from personal experience, that Karate has increased my range of motion. I had a debilitating hip condition (leg parathose? If that’s how you spell it) in my joint as a child that caused me not to be able to walk until I was almost two years past the time my bothers walked. The doctor said that I MUST keep up my range of motion or I will need a hip transplant by mid age. He gave me a choice between gymnastics and Karate (guess which on I chose) If you don’t belive me, just look at the old katate men in Okinawa, some of those guys are in there late 60’s and move like my brother who’s 26.
(btw- I now kick and run harder and faster than both my basketball playing brothers.)

About an earlier post; NO karate style is like, mine uses minimal distance for blocks and is very fluid in some areas. It’s all different ways of skinning the same cat. Consider many Okinawan masters; I could not say I have seen faster or more agile Americans who are 40 years younger. Anyway, besides traditional training, what else is there? You can hit bags, but the original masters hit wood pillars. You can shadow box, but that is done by most fighters. You can weight train, but karate people can to. You can fight people for practice, karate men kumite. I mean what can you do that is not already included in true traditional forms? What the problem is, I think, is that there is so much silliness among American dojo’s, that we can’t see what REAL karate is.

 

Ok but missing are

Clinch
Ground work
Realisic weapons defences
Many awareness and psychological things
Real hard cardio work

This is not the issue of what is missing but more what is wrong and the above are just part of it. I am not saying the art is bad but its the poor organisations being so rigid and people being put upon a pedistal that cause people to leave these arts and create naff splinter groups.

If the organisations really LISTENED to there members and worked more open rather than who is in favor and who is not, many arts could improve with the times.

Now in this generation of students many things have developed to allow us all to improve, it depends on weather the school, instructor or sytle embrace this or carry on with the head in the sand routene.

 

I think you have just hit the nail on the head here, too many people in the Karate organsations are too busy looking after number one and trying to climb the ladder of Dan grading, and after that they dont try to earn the respect of the student, in fact they try to demand it. Many so called Black belts wont even talk to a student let alone try to contructively improve them, they would rather belittle them in front of others and put it all down to traditional training methods.

I don't think it is their heads stuck in the sand aspect that concerns most, it is that most have their heads stuck up thier own backsides that is the main problem with Karate.

That's not to say that their are no good Karate Instructors out there, many a barrel of rotten apples will have the ocassional good one within the bunch.

Regards


Pat

Oh yeah, and what is the wearing of the blazers (suit jackets with club badges) and ties all about. Even when they are supposed to be socialising your see them wearing the dam things. WHY?

 

Ok, What I’ve seen so far I don’t think is a real problem with Traditional Karate, but a problem with what is considered to be traditional. This is understandable, because very few schools are still rooted in there founders school. Consider this, an Okinawan karate master would always use his family name for a school. Well, how many schools have a legitimate branch outside of Okinawa. The answer is... not bloody many.
A head sansei should actually be descended from the founder either by blood or adoption. Unlike other “traditional” karate schools the head guy should come (or send someone) to the dojos who are officially sanctioned and train the students themselves, every 3-4 years AND/OR make it mandatory that all senseis train with him on a set basis. I can tell you for sure, that real traditional karate has nothing to do with the mean and counterproductive methods described in previous posts.

As for the things I missed, Traditional schools should have no problem with training in ground fighting and it is important, your right. We do have real weapons to train with (bo, sword and shield, spear ect.), the glow in the dark nunchaku’s are admittedly cool, but sensei would blow his top. Physiology of combat is a personal thing but it is discussed. And as far as real cardio work note this: kata non stop, beach or cross-country running, jump rope and sparing drills to top it off. This is all part of a traditional method of training that is supposed to be done outside of class (karate is an every day thing). Weight training is also exemptible if it doesn't make you slower.

Look guy’s, you may get fit in the twice a week Taekwondo class at your college, but you get tough if you do it right and train hard like a karate man and don’t stop because your favorite show is on TV or it’s Saturday and you want to sit and do nothi’n. It doesn't matter what style your in, if you train like a weenie for 10 years, in 10 years you will be 10 years older and still a weenie. If you train like a kunfu/teakwondo/karate/whatever man, in 10 years you'll be glad you did. The secrete is in the training not the technique, MA doesn't stand for magic arts but martial arts.

Train, train, train and if you need to fight for your life, find an iron bar and hit the guy befor he hits and if you can't find one-hit him with your fist. This is the way it has alwayes been, this is traditional.

 

Totally agree about that mate (apart from the spelling ). The harder you train the more you get out of the art.

 

Lets not forget that MMA and non traditional martial arts are more competitive, so the practitioners GENERALLY take thier training more seriously.

Most karate, TKD guys i meet usually do it for fitness or as something to do.

Most Muay thai or MMA guys i meet train constantly, they go to the gym and practice, practice, practice, because they compete.

I think that is why TMA get a bad rep.