Why Traditional Karate is Not Effective for Self Defence

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by Stuart H, Oct 20, 2004.

  1. Stuart H

    Stuart H On the Mandarin bandwagon

    This article is sadly an accurate reflection of most karate schools today. I would like to shortly address the 12 points made in the article.​

    1. This is a misunderstood concept by many martial artists, but by many karateka as well. The idea is not to kill in one blow (which is fairly ludicrous) but to incapacitate in a single blow. There is also nothing to say that the attack should not continue if the blow does not incapacitate the opponent.​

    2. Again, another misunderstood concept, but one that is advocated by many karateka. The meaning of this philosophy is to avoid unnecessary violence or instigating it, it does not contradict the philosophy of a pre-emptive strike after all other options are exhausted. Funakoshi himself said that he would attack his opponent if he was accosted.​

    3. This is true for deep, static stances. But most karate styles have narrower stances. The stances are to shift bodyweight, they are not meant to be static, as is taught in many karate schools.​

    4. This is a little out of context. Martial arts is a way of life for all of us. The point the author is addressing is that many karateka spout other reasons for practising their art, as an excuse for their poor fighting skills. This is fair enough. Not to say there is anything wrong with following it simply as a way of life, just not excusing something else.​

    5. This is a somewhat difficult topic that I will not discuss here.​

    6. This is a fair comment. Many karateka are predisposed to tameshiwari than developing real fighting skill.​

    7. Another fair assumption. Kata can be a valuable tool, but not in the superficial sense of most karate dojos.​

    8. This point is accurate, but could be made about countless other martial arts.​

    9. This is true, if the dojo advocates heavy tensing with all movements, and does not use striking equipment.​

    10. Another point that could be made about many other martial arts, even systems like boxing and wrestling.​

    11. Karate takes as long to learn as any other martial art. But its poor effectiveness comes from poor training methods.​

    12. This is one of the banes of Japanese martial arts. Such an atmosphere discourages the students to ask questions. Complacency means the art cannot evolve.​
  2. Pat OMalley

    Pat OMalley Valued Member

    I agree with a lot you say, Mmmm, but me thinks your gonna get some flack over this:cool:
  3. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    I'm sure he will.

    But just 'cos the truth hurts - that doesn't stop it being the truth. :Angel:

    *Puts on flak jacket and stands next to welsh warrior.
  4. Pacificshore

    Pacificshore Hit n RUN!

    Yet another thread on why traditional martial arts is bad :bang:
  5. oldshadow

    oldshadow Valued Member

    All good points. I can’t say it any better than Yoda. I can only agree. :)
  6. YODA

    YODA The Woofing Admin Supporter

    So rip it apart and post a well reasoned counter argument.
  7. Humblebee

    Humblebee PaciFIST's evil twin

    double standards

    If someone says that certain MA is superior to others they get slammed but someone else can say another MA is inferior to others and that is deemed ok and even endorsed by MAP staff,if we can freely talk about arts that we think are inferior why cant we mention the one's we considor superior.
  8. oldshadow

    oldshadow Valued Member

    You are more then welcome to just back it up with more then opinion. Like here is a newspaper article that tells how my instructor fought off these attackers with his MA. Anything that shows the techniques in more then just theory form.
  9. JohnnyX

    JohnnyX Map Addict

    A nice article written by somebody that has read about karate. :woo:
  10. Scarlet Mist

    Scarlet Mist Banned Banned

    All good points indeed. I don't do karate, but I do a TMA, and I do forms, and some of the criticisms of Karate may apply to my art (low stances, time on forms/kata) but at the end of the day I think I have the edge on a kickboxer because of the tiger claw and the leopard fist.

    Also, yes, Karate is bad, but do other more modern arts succeed where it fails? I don't think so. The last time I heard on empty hand fight I must have been in grade 5 or something. Now, most cats have fists full of lead and chests full of kevlar. They'll run up on your spot shooting with high powered rifles - and there is no martial art in the world (except Gun Fu) that is going to help. NOT A ONE OF THEM.
  11. wayofthedragon

    wayofthedragon The Defender

    I skimed thru this, and will have to go back over it again when I have more time, and there are a heck of a lot of good points in that article. and for that matter, you can say that All martial arts I'd say are not effective in the society we live into day. The only sure way to have a chance is every body buy a gun instead. Now about that article, I do agree on some points, but I don't totally agree with it. Because I believe given the situation a person is in, MA can be very effective even in todays society. That is..... "depending on the situation" yet of course not in every situation. I believe that a good martial artist could defend him self against an attacker in the streets( that is if the attacker don't have a gun pointed at the MAist and is out of the MAist range:D ) But still martial arts isn't enough. Common sense determines a lot. But I don't beleive that MA is completely ineffective in todays society.
  12. oldshadow

    oldshadow Valued Member

    A “martial art” should encompass the defense and use of available weapons.
    As far as I see the above goes for most TMA as taught in most places but, I will say not all.
  13. Anth

    Anth Daft. Supporter

    The karateka side of me says that article is a load of BS, basically another "this MA is better than that MA" thread, "RBSDs are better than TMAs".

    The karate mod side of me says each to ones own.

    *dons flak jacket and stands next to YODA*
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2004
  14. oldshadow

    oldshadow Valued Member

    I agree just because you teach a MMA or one with resistance training does not mean you are teaching something that is better then a TMA. It depends what you are teaching.
  15. Humblebee

    Humblebee PaciFIST's evil twin


    including karate
  16. Visage

    Visage Banned Banned

    I read this and cried. Painful, biased...
    In short, I don't agree with what is said. And it's sad to see that TMA bashing goes on in a place like MAP.
  17. Nrv4evr

    Nrv4evr New Member

    Obviously traditional karate is not effective, because it was desgined for different purposes. That's why modern arts are more effective, because that's what they are... modern. Traditional karate was invented in a day where thieves weren't super skilled fighters. Also keep in mind that most were a lot smaller and weaker than they are today. So, if the sword doesn't cut, make it sharper. That's why we cross train. Karate does have some knowledge on punching, beyond its time, and the breathing is good for stamina. So, just learn other arts to bolster your weaknesses, rather than just improving your strengths. This is coming from a 5 year advocate of trad. karate, so don't doubt the credibility.

    EDIT: Tejitsudo, I don't believe its bashing. To each their own, but the article itself addresses a serious issue. A lot of people are fooling themselves, thinking TMA will defend themselves. It may to some degree, but there's always a bigger and better fish [fighter].
  18. Scarlet Mist

    Scarlet Mist Banned Banned

    If you know an MA that can help me defend myself against bullets from high powered rifles, I'll drop what I'm doing and train in it.
  19. Mrs Owt

    Mrs Owt New Member

    A lot of people are fooling themselves about a lot of arts - call them TMA, MMA, or any moniker you slap on it. I know MMA people who have no clue about self-defence and yet sell there "system" as great for being able to defend yourself. I don't think the name counts - what is taught does.

    I have been taught TMA's by men who have actually defended themselves. Their reality defies the theory that all TMA is bunk. I hate having to say this over and over again. Many of the men I train with are attacked on a fairly regular basis as they are city transit drivers. They have to defend themselves without excessively damaging their assailants because they are city employees. They have effectively been able to do so.

    This is reality. I know these men. I have seen the bruises and scrapes. There training has assisted them. They train karate.
  20. Yukimushu

    Yukimushu MMA addict

    Personally, i wouldn't say its "NOT" effective. But i believe it isn't AS effective as it could be.

    Wait for me!
    *Dons flak jacket, AND a helmet. Packs up the mars bars and stands next to Yoda, Gaskell & WelshWarrior.*

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