Why some Yang TaiChi schools might look external

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by soggycat, Jun 15, 2005.

  1. moononthewater

    moononthewater Valued Member

    I think he is still hiding behind gobblygook if he wants to make the statements he does then he should be clear about his background.
  2. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Came across this pretty good article, there's some nice info on styles etc.


    I thought this bit of it was worth posting here:
  3. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    Soggy - at last we begin to get some of your background! What a shame tho... How much time-wasting and game-playing to feed your constant need to be centre of attention did that take? You do not have to name names in "OO are Yer?" What you wrote in the last few posts would have been far enough info to let us all know... but you continued to play games. That's called masturbation - look it up in the dictionary.
    On the subject of 'enlightenment' I practice a martial art largely so that I can defend my life from physical harm. Tao is just one way of understanding energy and existence - any enlightenment you may get from that is, I assure you, partial and incomplete. If you think I am wrong, remember the frog in the well. I live in the whole world, not dressed up in silly robes or on some mountain or feeling self-righteous in an impoverished hut. I'm just a person, I love to be equal with everyday folk, not different.
    Whatever your real knowledge may be Soggy, whatever level of skill you may or may not possess, you come here to cause trouble and wind everyone up. I do not believe that qualifies you to judge how enlightened or otherwise my life condition is. It only qualifies you as a beligerent ejit and a disgrace to the good name of IMA self-mastery. Congratulations!
    Soggy, thank you for reminding me of my teacher's greatest lesson: "You cannot appeal to a level of Consciousness that does not yet exist"
    I give up appealing from here on in...
    If you ever visit the UK please come see me - we have business to sort out, you and I. End of my acknowledgement of your existence until then.
    (Onyomi - you were 100% right after all then btw)
    Peace to all who actually come to share and learn

    Last edited: Jun 23, 2005
  4. moononthewater

    moononthewater Valued Member

    TB i like you your a man on my level will definately have to visit you sometime.
  5. Taiji Butterfly

    Taiji Butterfly Banned Banned

    Thanx Moon - I just remembered after wasting so much energy on this the chinese saying: "Talk does not cook rice" lol
    We're martial artists when it comes down to it - I never start fights and I detest violence for its own sake. I have walked away from conflict whenever possible. However, what I detest even more is some jumped up little fantasist winding me and everyone else up for kicks. So I say, what we do is about martial art and we can talk about it 'til the cows come home or we can see for ourselves who knows their stuff (and who doesn't) just like they did in the old days - That's what we keep banging on about isn't it? How good they were at boxing. You can't talk that stuff - you either walk it or you wet your briefs lol (websites and clever remarks don't cut it, only standup and knockdown imo) :cool: I don't particularly want to go that route, (I prefer friendly exchanges of skills and knowhow with likeminded people in an atmosphere of respect personally) but I will go there in this case if necessary and we'll decide this matter in the only way that actually counts. I'm sick of slanging at each other with words and petty insults.
    Maybe it's just the only way to see 'OO's OO' in this instance, seeing as the person concerned has declined all civilised invitations to be an equal with us on here.
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2005
  6. moononthewater

    moononthewater Valued Member

    As i have said before Tai Chi is first and foremost a martial art everything else is a bonus. If you cannot use your Tai Chi to defend yourself you are missing the point. None of us want to fight but as martial artists it should be available to us if we need it for that moment in time when all hits the fan. If we never have to use it thats ok by me but we must be prepared and capable to use it in all its manifestations. And every now and then there will be some one ready to oblige.
  7. soggycat

    soggycat Valued Member

    < shakes head>
    ...unfortunately you have little understanding of the Taoist character of "remaining hidden", " being non obvious" .

    " Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon " is actually a chinese martial art proverb....it means " stay low and unobvious and unleash your unexpected power when appropiate"....
    didn't know that did you ?
    ...well look at what you miss out when you don't speak Mandarin.

    A friend of mine ( Caucasian) went looking for a XingYi master . He had a lot of trouble location an authentic one, having to pass by many Wushu teachers. To make a long story short, after a long search,he managed to find one . The master lived in a small room in a back lane of a rather unpleasant part of town, under what appears to be rather impoverished and simple conditions....with one light bulb in his unit.

    It deterred many from joining up, but not my friend because he was able to see through the illusions. He had read somewhere that real Taoist teachers live exactly like that....simple life simple and no prominence.
    Real masters don't publish dozens of books, run large schools with assorted fee plans , sell videos, insist on school uniforms or have snazzy websites.

    You'd be forgiven if you thought I was refering a master who lived in some mountain in China.
    No, as it turns out, this master is Sun Da Fa.
    If you live in Sydney, you'd know this man is really something. That's all I will say about him.
    Never judge a book by its cover is the best advice I can share when seeking a Taoist teacher.
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2005
  8. soggycat

    soggycat Valued Member

    Butterfly, actually you were the late comer to MAP, my position on my background has always been consistent …just ask NZRIC.
    The time wasting was done by you….who insisted on background info when I said it was not relevant. Judge me by what I explain in the post, not what I claim in my profile. In fact as I recall you started the abuse and mud slinging…just read your posts. If I’m into masturbation as you say, ….well you so sure you are not a backdooor probe ?…. Do use it on yourself, perhaps you can detox when you get rid of that constipation.
    Whilst at it, drink more Yin green tea , it'll help lower the yang fire that's raging in your kidneys.

    Horse stance in Yang Tai Chi ?
    What a dangerous mutation you are spreading in UK.

    The Tao Te Ching :
    Those who know do not say.
    Those who say do not know.

    P.S. If ever I'm in UK, I definitely won't be meeting you........I'm very afraid.
    .....of wetting myself laughing if we should meet.
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2005
  9. soggycat

    soggycat Valued Member

    Geo, Thank you for that post.
    There’s no denying that IMA has evolved/ changed.
    What's at stake :

    1. Is Yang Tai Chi evolving in a progressive way leading to greater things
    2. Or is it evolving to extinction by incorporating changes that are unnatural and don’t work....and modified by "non-experts"

    Any student of Evolutionary science will tell you the species that still exist today evolved progressively, but many others evolved down a different path to extinction. That’s simplifying, but you get my drift.

    I’m also of the opinion that something that has evolved and been polished for a long time needs no further evolution.
    “ Don’t fix it if it ain’t broke” comes to mind
    The fire that cavemen use to cook his meat 10,000 years ago is the same fire I use today when I cook meat in a campfire.

    It still can be used, it doesn’t need evolution.
    Granted that we have other sources like electric heating, lasers, induction heating, halogen stoves and microwave heating.

    The knife that a man stabs another with 3000 years ago will surely do the same damage today.
    It doesn’t need to evolve.

    The masterpieces that men like Mozart ,Beethoven, Handel wrote 300+ years ago, is still as glorious today…try modifying that and see what you get…less than a masterpiece.
    No known living composer of today comes even close to what was first created 300years ago.

    Why mess around with a formula that has reached perfection ?

    IMA is not like software, where a new version needs to come out every now and then. Tai Chi is an ART, not a technology

    Bagua, Yang TaiChi and XingYi are very very old arts ( unlike Taekwondo…50 years old , Judo 100 years old, Yiquan 60 years old)
    They have already been modified, polished and stood the test of time, stringently battle tested in times where guns were not in use.
    Surely the men of say 400 years ago who lived and died in unarmed combaton a daily basis, have better insight than man of the last 100years in terms of fighting without guns?
    Those men are better qualified to modify IMA, not today's man.
    All the killing methods of 400 years back will work today.
    Unfortunately so much of the "higher skills" have been lost due to poor transmission of knowledge which suffered under the traditionof secrecy

    And before anyone says it, Bagua may have been formally known in 1850’s by Dong Hai Chuan, but remember he studied from 2 Taoist priests….Bagua has roots that probably go back hundreds of years . XingYi and ChangSanFeng Tai Chi dates from 1300CE

    But I agree, commercially driven IMA needs to evolve...because there's a marketing need to constantly repackage and keep the students coming back with a "new", "new improved", "mega new improved"....you get my drift?
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2005
  10. soggycat

    soggycat Valued Member

    " sluts outnumber virgins"

    Like I said, "Fools usually outnumber the wise" or " sluts outnumber virgins"

    The sad part is these well meaning , but misguided people still think they are doing the right thing.

    Gerard, do not be disheartened, just stay the course listen only to your teacher if you deem him to " know the real stuff"....avoid learning from vocal classmates who brag about their years of TaiChi experience yet still move like a robot
  11. Shadowdh

    Shadowdh Seeker of Knowledge

    Ahh so the secret of a good master is not to find one who lives in the world but one who hides from it... or is it that only the ones who live as impoverished are truly the wise daoist master... and of course the clincher is that if its in a book it must be true then...

    Also the problem with your quote re crouching etc above is that it may mean you shouldnt show your hand prematurely but it doesnt mention anything regarding delusion or being plain wrong... and what does knowing Mandarin have to do with knowing a phrase... through the marvels of translation English speakers too can know the marvels of "old" Chinese sayings as espoused by old Chinese "masters"...
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2005
  12. Visage

    Visage Banned Banned

    Must be those ol' Tian family teachings... Oh wait... The Tian's? Chinese... One's an old man... 4th Generation Lineage holder of Yang Taiji... By your own (warped) logic, that would make Master Tian... well, a master... And he practises horse stance..

    Ah, I suppose he must be a fake because he doesnt agree with you.

    Grow some. :rolleyes:
  13. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Again Soggy you assume that you are conversing with dummies or something.
    Your explanation does not even take into account what these creatures represent in Eastern ideology - it is simplistic, but a nice interpretation none the less - its hardly rocket science.

    Congratulations for discovering the obvious.

    I think sometimes you come over as condescending, and that gets peoples back up.

    Let me just add you don't get my back up at all, I enjoy a good discussion and looking at things from different angles. If these discussion allow us(all contributors) and people reading to see different sides to an issue all well and good. Ultimately we are all free to make up our own minds. Trouble is making our minds up on what is right and wrong is not in keeping with Tao IMHO. All is transforming and flux. Keeping interest unchained leads to discovery (of what is).

    Last edited: Jun 24, 2005
  14. Shadowdh

    Shadowdh Seeker of Knowledge

    But Geo its all Tao mate... everything... so wether your thinking leans one way or his goes the other its all Tao... At least thats how I read it... :)
  15. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    That is correct shadow it is all Tao.

    IMHO to remain unattached is to really see all(Tao) clearly for what it is.
    That's all I meant.

    You can attach to parts/ideas, but be mindfull of how/your motives etc.

    just my particular take on it in this instance
    of course I am not attached to it :)
  16. onyomi

    onyomi 差不多先生

    I like sluts...

    I like sluts better than virgins. :D
  17. onyomi

    onyomi 差不多先生

    Challenge match!

    Ha! There'd be nothing I'd like more than to hear that Soggy met with TB and got owned. Too bad soggy's such a coward...

    What's the matter Soggy? Your hero, Yang the Invincible, accepted many challenge matches. Why don't you?
  18. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    ;) Funny I have the same sentiment

    Who'd want to be a virgin? :D
  19. cloudz

    cloudz Valued Member

    Soggy, about your 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' dialogue.

    Remember this Soggy, you will never fight in anyone elses style. Why?
    Because you are not them!!

    Fighting cannot be written down.
    You can only follow a training framework, sure you want to be as close as you can to the most efficient method. But ultimately it must be your own.
    You are training martial arts/fighting. You cannot be a clone of whoever.
    Even if YLC himself was your teacher, what you acheive is still down to you.

    Your analogies just don't work.
    A piece of music cannot evolve/change like the one you cited. But let me ask you this where did that creation come from - Bethoven. Unique creation. A fight cannot be coreographed it is not a movie. YLC got his repution from fighting not being in movies. If you want to be a Bethoven you can't just play what he played (created).

    That just makes you one of those guys that fakes great art work

    How do like that for an analogy?
  20. Visage

    Visage Banned Banned

    I like it. :cool:

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