Why People Fear Doing Combat Sports Despite Regular Sports Like Baseball Having Higher Injury Rates?

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Discussion' started by SlamDunkerista, Aug 30, 2022.

  1. Years ago there as a case study claiming that despite the perception of being more brutal, MMA actually has far lower rates of injury and made a case of it as the safest direct contact sport out there. Now admittedly it as on a website for MMA and the article was titled "Top 5 Myths of MMA" so it had an obvious agenda.

    That said as someone who follows Soccer and obviously as my username shows Basketball, I can confirm at least for those two sports there's now way you're gonna go through them per season without getting an multiple injured members esp at the highest professional leagues like NBA and the Premiere League. And by injuries I mean crippling hospitalization requiring a month in the hospital is a common occurence.

    However the article does bring me a question of why if we assume its claim of injuries being much higher for every other sports, do people including hardcore ultra athlete types like Football Firms in England fear practising Boxing and Wrestling and esp MMA due to risk of injuries?

    Despite getting some nasty blows playing every season of their preferred favorite sport lke Hockey (and not even at a competitive league but amateur one lke Middle School Hockey or just playing in a local neighborhood weekend baseball teams who don't even have official licenses)?

    The article main contention does have a legit point. Why fear Kickboxing and other sports despite the fact the fact you are far more likely to get ouchy injuries playing Soccer n your Backyard daily with you friends?

    I mean in training I got a handsprain yesterday practising offense and defense with the basketball by accidental grappling. So I have to wonder why MMA is so stigmatized in particular?
     
  2. Botta Dritta

    Botta Dritta Valued Member

    He's back!

    "hardcore ultra athlete types like Football Firms"

    Best sentence of the week! Like actually written without irony!
     
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  3. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    No they aren't. You think the top sportball teams could have their best players sidelined in hospital for a month regularly?
    It does happen obviously. And worse like death and permanent retirement injuries. And multiple little strains and pulls and knocks but not regular month long hospitalisation.
    There is a difference between a someone seeking to cause you pain and harm and pain and harm caused by other means.
    You may get harmed in other sports but combat sports are a different thing altogether as the pain and harm are inherent in the activity.
    IIRC equestrian past times are very dangerous but people, who wouldn't dream on doing a combat sport, still do them regularly.
     
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  4. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Hardcore athletes:
    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Anyone with even a modicum of combat sport training knows this whole idea is bonkers and that statistics shouldn't be used to do this sort of speculation. You are comparing apples and orangutans.

    Pro athletes play dozens or in some cases over a hundred games in a season. In the NBA it's 82. MLB, 150+. Every single game has a range of potential injuries from minor to career ending. So of course more games, more training, equals more risks over time. American football limits its games in a season specifically for this reason, and each team even gets a bye week off so players can heal.

    A fighter/boxer has maybe a couple fights in a whole year, and I believe the record is currently 5. And practically every injury is the result of the opponent attempting to damage and subdue the other. You are going to get hurt in the octagon/ring no matter what, every time, and I'm not talking sore muscles which is what the vast majority of other sport players have after games. It's so routine, recovery from it is part of the process. Ever watch an MMA fighter or boxer after a match under the care of a doc and corner team? It's often a bloody mess.

    But from my own perspective, most athletes could just never become pro fighters. Running, catching balls, throwing them, hitting targets, hoops, NONE of that is like fighting. The few exceptions like hockey fights (some of the worst, sloppy fist fighting you'll ever see) and tackle sports have a similar attitude, but I know full tackles who have cried in my presence upon being punched in the face (granted, they recover fast).
     
  6. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Pretty sure I'd cry if I was tackled by a professional rugby player...
     
  7. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    I'm slow today, it took me a bit to get this joke. These are actual hooligans right?

    I wonder how many of these guys weren't quite sure how they ended up getting their mug taken. One minute they're in the pub...

     
  8. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Happy tears? :) Seriously though getting tackled does suck for sure (been there quite a bit on both ends, and some tackles are mutually assured destruction events, ouch), but all the pros do train for that, even how to fall safely (QB slide etc), and unless you're dealing with some mealy beefcake on steroids with a bad attitude (and they exist), most players aren't really trying to hurt the other team players. It's a tough sport but people really care about the ball, not handing out concussions.

    That said, if the NFL CTE controversy proved anything, it's that sports related injuries are probably underreported, and under treated especially when it comes to things like closed head injury, something that has always and will never be gone from boxing/MMA (and I'm sure injuries in both are also underrepresented).

    In the NFL they just changed the head tackle rules, and it's probably already made a difference. In boxing and MMA, you're basically hoping to concuss the other guy, break a leg, choke them silly, or just make them bleed out until they're done.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2022
  9. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    And just by way of timely coincidence Sylvie von-Duuglas Ittu, a woman training and fighting full time in Thailand, a woman with hundreds of fights to her name, is out due to a bad injury. A woman who does bouts of Muay Kard Chuek (with rope wrapped hands). A woman involved in combat sports to a degree few can imagine or manage. She lives a life well beyond the capabilities of most martial artists let alone non martial artists.
    And she got that injury, not during a Thai bout or hard training, but during a horse riding lesson when her horse got spooked.
    Doing an activity many people, young and old do every day.
     
  10. icefield

    icefield Valued Member

    I think a lot of those studies were recreational sports people not full time athletes

    anecdotally I know of a number of gyms that banned amateur fighters from playing football before fight camps as we got a lot more Injuries from guys playing soccer than actually during the fight camps
     
  11. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    Injuries are one of those things that are so situational and individual, I don't generally trust any of these sorts of hodgepodge reviews.

    Great runners sprain ankles, great fighters avoid all sorts of damage, and some of the greatest athletes in history and have their heart just implode.

    That last one just happened to one of the greatest bodybuilders on the planet too, because of COVID. Can't wait for that study...how many people died or have permanent lung scarring and other issues because they went training one day....
     
  12. Grond

    Grond Valued Member

    I'm reluctant to post this, because I know some of the people in this video. It's not that big a deal but a great fight, I thought. Two great combatants at play.

    But I remembered it today and thought again, "damn, fear of combat sports? Who do I know who disagrees" and this was the video. Great heart, great fight. Powerful hearts on display in this one, and no fear of injury at all in the eyes, if you dig.

     
  13. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    What is this nonsense about people being regularly hospitalized from basketball? The only articles I can find about hospitalized basketball players involve car crashes, gunshot wounds, covid, etc.

    The common injuries from basketball itself are jammed fingers, sprains and strains, etc. They're injuries but not comparable to being knocked out by someone's shin to your face.

    Let's not pretend that basketball is hour-for-hour more dangerous than Muay Thai because of the raw number of basketball knee and ankle injuries.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2022
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  14. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    In 2012 in the US over half a million people went to the emergency room with injuries sustained in basketball, and 8000 of them were hospitalised: Common Sports Injuries: Incidence and Average Charges

    But I think there's a lot of apples to oranges going on in this thread. Freely comparing between hobbyists, professionals, training and competition.

    If we're talking about hobbyists training, I think a lot of sports do lead to more injury than martial arts. That's because a lot of other sports train as they compete, which is rare in the martial arts world. The training in martial arts is usually set up to minimise the risk of injury, and it is something continually on people's minds.

    The fact that in many other sports you are focused on getting the ball from another player, you are not as focused on avoiding inuring them than if you are punching them in the face in sparring.
     
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  15. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    As you said, there's a lot of apples-and-oranges variables at play. The raw numbers of basketball injuries is unhelpful when an estimated 26 million Americans play basketball at least casually. And "hospitalized" for basketball is going to include middle-aged hobbyists hospitalized with chest pain; it's going to people who got dehydration or heat stroke from playing on an asphalt basketball court in a hot summer day in New York or Chicago who are admitted for a few hours until they're doing better again. And "went to the emergency room" will include every dislocated finger and every 1cm cut that needs a couple stitches to close (that's a reality of the American health care system: for many Americans, the ER is the only place to get stitches or a precautionary X-ray of an ankle).

    Let me put it another way: a basketball game involves 24 players, with 10 on the court at any time. I've watched a decent amount of basketball--I didn't grow up with it, but it's one of the sports my younger son likes to watch--and seeing a single drop of blood from any one of those 24 individuals during the course of a game, or seeing someone hit in the head hard enough to see stars, is an extreme rarity. What are the chances of you not seeing a single drop of blood or a single person shaken by a head hit in twelve straight boxing matches or MMA matches or Muay Thai matches (again, 24 competitors)?

    Helpful reading: University of Rochester Medicine article about common basketball injuries. The top two are "ankle sprains" and "jammed fingers."
     
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  16. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Sure, but are we comparing injury rates or severity of injuries?

    How are we measuring severity? Stitches to the head might be more severe than a sprained ankle by one measure, but it's easier to train around healing stitches than a bad sprain.

    My anecdotal experience is that minor injuries that take people out of training are more commonly suffered playing sport, but more serious injuries like broken ribs or jaw, while very rare, occur during free sparring more often.

    I totally understand the restriction on playing sports in the run up to competition, because an injury doesn't have to be serious to take you out of the fight. Reminds me of an interview with a former Navy SEAL I saw a few months ago where he explained it was his duty to give up skateboarding while serving because a minor wrist or ankle injury could mean missing an operation. The risk of injury is obviously greater than skateboarding when people are shooting and throwing grenades at you, but the risk to his career was greater by continuing to skateboard.

    Anyway, I'm not talking about professional MMA or Muay Thai competition, because that's not my world. I'm mainly comparing people training once or twice a week in a martial arts class where the majority of sparring is light with common amateur UK sports such as 5-a-side football (soccer) where people train and play without professional coaching and participants have varying degrees of fitness.
     
  17. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    If the bunch of middle aged nerds who frequent my work's 5-a-side session are any indicator then expect multiple injuries every week and a serious injury every few months. :p:D
     
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  18. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    I'm talking about severity because the original post made the following insane assertion about basketball: "there's no way you're gonna go through them per season without getting an multiple injured members...And by injuries I mean crippling hospitalization requiring a month in the hospital is a common occurence."

    That's a totally different discussion than the original post that I was responding to. The original post asserted MMA is "the safest direct contact sport out there" and queried why people "fear practising Boxing and Wrestling and esp MMA due to risk of injuries?" and called MMA "stigmatized in particular."

    When choosing a hobby, most people probably are more afraid of a head injury in MMA than they are an ankle sprain in basketball, and that's not unreasonable or irrational like the original post asserts it is. That's all I'm saying.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2022
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  19. David Harrison

    David Harrison MAPper without portfolio

    Ah, okay, I getcha.

    I was responding to the thread drift further down!
    I wasn't disagreeing with anything you were saying, just adding a different perspective. :)

    I've heard my experience echoed a lot by other instructors, and I think that is where the idea comes from. People are generally going to have to take time off training from injuries sustained outside of a martial arts class.
     
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  20. Mitlov

    Mitlov Shiny

    On that topic, I think there's a cost benefit analysis to be made. For every person who misses a month of their twice-a-week karate class because they twisted their ankle playing soccer in the park, there's someone who misses a couple months of their twice-a-week karate class because their back spontaneously went out, or they had a cardiac-related incident, that might have been avoided if they had more strength-and-cardio in their life than just two sessions per week of karate on its own can provide. I suspect that overall, "casual martial arts plus other activities for fitness as well" is better for you than "casual martial arts and nothing else," but it's exceptionally hard to prove that one way or the other, and there's anecdotes on both sides of that fence.
     
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