Why isn't God held to the same standards as man?

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by AndrewTheAndroid, Feb 8, 2013.

  1. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    On a phone so I can't post links but the 7 heavenly virtues is a good place to start. Now of course people will argue "But we didn't need the Bible for that!" but fail to either acknowledge that no, not everyone knows/does that and that in many of our respective countries Christianity has influenced our culture whether we want to believe it or not. If you can find fault with any of those virtues I'll eat my slipper for breakfast.
     
  2. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Care to list them because I've done a google search and found about 3 different versions?

    EDIT..ah right I see them now. Yeah...a good list. Following those virtues has nothing to do with believing in mythical beings, miracles, angels, rising from the dead and other such unfounded claims though.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
  3. Spirit Warrior

    Spirit Warrior Valued Member

    It is because human beings need symbols and the nature of mankind is to progress; Jesus's philosophy just represents another stage in progression. Albert Einstein also believed in God; the aspiration for knowledge in religion is not different from the desire of men to understand how the world works as the Islamic hadith says: 'the ink of a scholar is more valuable than the blood of a martyr'
     
  4. Spirit Warrior

    Spirit Warrior Valued Member

    love is the highest commandment', 'judge not lest ye be judged' 'it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven' the ten commandments: thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal....
     
  5. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    you forgot about the first four commandments.
     
  6. Dave76

    Dave76 Valued Member

    In the words of Jesus himself:

    To understand these verses, you need to read the only Biblical definnition of love. Too long to post. Here is a link http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Corinthians+13&version=NIV

    There is no real list of basic tenants in the Bible. The Be attitudes are probobly as close as it gets. An argument could be made for the ten commandments but most modern churchs don't really teach that you need to keep them post crucifiction.
     
  7. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    In which case the founding tenet of christianity (love god) is absolutely a terrible thing to base a culture, morals and way of life on.
     
  8. Dave76

    Dave76 Valued Member

    Why is that?

    To clarify: I am not a christian. I was raised as one and spent alot of time studing as a young adult, so I am just answering from what I know of the Bible.
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
  9. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Because it assumes so much as being true without establishing basic facts.
    It assumes that the existance of the christian god is a given fact that we must only love without first proving that god is even real.
    If that's the foundation of christianity then it's founded on a falsehood.
    It embodies what it means to have "faith" which is one of the most overated "virtues" there is.
    Because it smacks of self aggrandizement and insecurity on god's part.
    Because love is earned not demanded. You can't decree love.
    I don't demand my daughter or wife love me. I attempt to act in a way that will mean they continue to love me.

    Just off the top of my head. :)
     
  10. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    i agree that 'love god' is a terrible thing to base morality on, frankly. of course, we should love our neighbor, we should not steal from or kill our neighbor. it's just that i don't need "god" to tell me that it's wrong to do those things. i don't need "god" to tell me it's wrong to rape someone. i just think that it's very interesting that "love god" has to be a "commandment".

    i was raised same way. my parents are very religious and we went to church every sunday. during lent we went to church more than twice a week, and during holy week, it's party time!! every night in the church. sometimes multiple times per day. my mom used to take us out of school on orthodox good friday to go to church all day, confess, cleanup, get ready for j.c.'s arrival!!! my mom thought i was very pious, i was an altar boy and spent a lot of time reading the bible in church when i wasn't behind the altar. it was because i was so damn bored i had to give myself something to do. she was very surprised when i went away to school at 17, i very rarely (and i mean rarely) was found back in a church.

    edit....

    and no, i haven't "come out" to my mom. i just don't see why she doesn't get the hint frankly. i mean, i'm 42. since 17, i've probably been in church a total of less than 50 times, only because i've been guilted by my mother. my wife and i did decide to baptize our children, but i see it as a familial and societal "ritual". my kids have been to church probably less than 10 times in their life, 2 of those being their own baptisms.

    i've been thinking about this a lot lately. what do you guys think? should i "come out" to my mom? maybe bake her a cake? she will actually be devastated. it would probably be better if i actually was gay, but still "believed".
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
  11. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Well the intrinsic problem is that G(g)od is above the rules of man by his/her very nature, so it is unlikely that they have a microcosmic view conducive to a society functioning at its best
     
  12. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    Well the intrinsic problem is that gods don't actually exist so it's unlikely they have the first clue on how to make a society functional. :)
     
  13. Dave76

    Dave76 Valued Member

    The common denominator in these is love, not God. Which would make love(as defined in Corinthians 13) the basis for the faith. It might not be the best, most fair, most logical sytem but I would argue that a society that has existed as long as the Hebrews have, is functional. If it was a failure, the Hebrew people would have been forgotten like countless other cultures.
     
  14. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Loving a VENGEFUL God is not healthy!
     
  15. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    What told you in the first place not to do those things just out of curiosity? And not everyone ascribes to those same rules, hence why a little clarification is necessary...

    I also think people give themselves a bit too much credit when they say they follow all of those things and don't do anything bad to anyone. Take the Sermon on the Mount, one of the key parts of the Bible in terms of Christian discipleship. Murder is wrong, but hatred and ill will towards your fellow man is in the same category as it. Cheating on your spouse physically is bad, but if you do it in your thoughts it's just as bad as doing the real thing. If you don't keep your word, it's the same as telling a lie. Give to everyone you can, even the homeless guy who you probably drive past every day and avoid making eye contact with. Love and hope good things happen to your enemies. And so on.

    I can confidently say no one on here does not do any of those things, hence why we all have a lot to work on.
     
  16. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    you want to get into the history of ethics and whether there are absolutes? that might be a topic for 3 maps to handle. :) i'm sure we can all think up a possibility to lie, or steal, or kill.

    just because my parents told me "don't steal, jesus says so" doesn't mean that a.) god exists b.) i couldn't or wouldn't have learned that (not to steal) on my own. and by the way, which god should i follow? if vishnu says "don't steal", should i believe in him over j.c.? and why?

    also, the whole "thought crime" part of the sermon on the mount is frankly fallacious. i love my wife. but if i see what i consider is an attractive woman or man, fantasize about having sex with him or her, but don't act on it, that's as bad as actually acting on it? that's beyond preposterous.

    oh clive owen, he's so dreamy. if only i was gay and not married to wonderful woman. != i'm going to cheat on my wife
     
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2013
  17. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    You'd be surprised. There's people out there who were not taught what we think of as moral absolutes. You may have, but then again you might have not. Never underestimate what humans can rationalize. I've met gangbangers who have killed innocent people in a shooting who seemed surprised when I told him he was a bad guy. He was the hero of his own story in his eyes, but to us he was a vicious dope-dealing baby killer.

    Why is it preposterous? If you constantly avoid something and try never to think about it, you don't think you would be better off than someone who regularly entertains those fantasies? Especially when that fantasy may become real, making it that much harder to resist?

    If there's nothing wrong with fantasy, does that mean you condone what the NYPD "cannibal cop" was fantasizing? After all, he only thought it and never did it. Should he get off scot free?
     
  18. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    a quick search of the cannibal cop (sorry, i hadn't heard of him before) revealed that he was actively planning the eating of women. that seems to have crossed the threshold from fantasy to reality, no? but if he was fantasizing about it, so what? a.) how would we even ever know if he hadn't decided to act on it b.) people fantasize about weird stuff all the time.

    i agree with some of what you're saying kuma. some people don't have any idea that what they're doing is wrong. as an leo, you must realize there's always a segment of the population that's anti-societal. why we have prisons? but that doesn't mean that there are any absolutes. i can easily think of several scenarios where i would kill someone and be perfectly justified doing so. should we have not gone to war against germany because we're supposedly a christian nation? if a man came into my house with a gun and i had a gun, yes i would probably shoot him. wouldn't you?

    seriously, if j.c. does actually exists, giovanni's going to hell. like i fantasize about 90% of the women i pass on the street. a woman would literally have to have less than 3 limbs for me to not be interested.
     
  19. Dave76

    Dave76 Valued Member

    :topic:
    Killing and murder are not the same. The Bible does not speak against killing only an unjustified killing, which is murder. Sorry, just a pet peve of mine.
     
  20. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    He had discussed it, planned it, and even had photos of some of his "dishes" but he never actually went through with any of it to my knowledge.

    You're darn right I would. But I also believe in the original interpretation of the Commandment which does allow you to protect yourself and yes even kill if necessary.

    We can all be guilty of it, Giovanni. I definitely am not saying my poo don't smell.
     

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