Why isn't God held to the same standards as man?

Discussion in 'Off Topic Area' started by AndrewTheAndroid, Feb 8, 2013.

  1. Sandninjer

    Sandninjer Valued Member

    You're misconstruing things now. There was never any mention of them not being equal. Because you commit a crime doesn't make you any less equal. And they're not "oppressed". If you're found guilty under a written law, that's not called oppression.

    If you think it needs to be changed, you should write them a letter.
     
  2. Sandninjer

    Sandninjer Valued Member

    Conveniently you've chosen to ignore what I said. Far fewer crime rates and you talk about barbaric? lol.
     
  3. Grass hopper

    Grass hopper Valued Member

    Yes it's oppression. Someone doesn't commit homosexuality, they are homosexual. And don't say "it's a choice", that's just flat out not true. That's oppression plain and simple, they take someone and don't allow them to marry, or have sex, or display their love in any way.
     
  4. Grass hopper

    Grass hopper Valued Member

    The ends don't always justify the means. If we shot criminals and declared martial law, there would be little crime, but that wouldn't be civilized. Same premise.

    What if the thief is trying to feed his family? Or what if he later wants to get a decent job? Now he's half as productive as he was before. Because he only has ONE HAND. How can you not see that chopping off hands is crazy?
     
  5. Blade96

    Blade96 shotokan karateka

    i stand by pasmith's assertion that religion treats men and women differently. To say they are different isnt the same as promoting different "roles" for men and women. Yet thats exactly what religion and complimentarianism does. one of my fb friends and bahai tried to compare it to the two wings of a bird - he forgot though that the wings of a bird do exactly the same thing! Men and women are capable of doing the same work and same things.

    as for homosexuality - its exactly what the grasshopper said. Nobody can change that.......no matter what religious people try and get people to believe. We dont have a big S across our foreheads for stupid.
     
  6. Spirit Warrior

    Spirit Warrior Valued Member

    No i'm not i'm saying there is a difference in believing something and then a difference in imposing your beliefs on another person because God is the only true judge and we must answer to him only. When I spoke of slavery I was giving an example of how people twist religion to suit there own desires which is what happened when christians tried to use scripture to say that one race must be enslaved when there is no biblical evidence for it.
     
  7. Grass hopper

    Grass hopper Valued Member

    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus+25:44-46&version=NIV

    There's the biblical precedent for slavery. It doesn't specifically say whites enslave blacks, but it does allow for slavery. Again, no uncertain terms there.
     
  8. Blade96

    Blade96 shotokan karateka

    also some religions, islam and some others, use the thing about men having more libido than women Oh women cant pray with us, because we cant control ourselves`Gimmie a break. Men should be offended by that cause it claims they have NO control, like cats.

    Even at my university, at the end of ramadan, for muslims, they had women in one room and men in the other. I dont get the segregation. Its dumb to me.

    and that women should wear hijabs. Excuse me, what the hell is immodest about my hair on my head?
     
  9. Grass hopper

    Grass hopper Valued Member

    I'm with you, it's ridiculous. I'm not saying men and women are the same, but I am saying they should all have the same opportunities, and the right to do whatever the other gender does.
     
  10. Spirit Warrior

    Spirit Warrior Valued Member

    Now let me deal with this issue once and for all to believe something is not to believe that a government should enforce religious beliefs: all people are equal in a free society. As John Locke the enlightenment thinker explained: 'people have unaliebale rights to life, liberty and property' when he said that he used the bible to explain that as god says that the earth was given to all the children of Adam and Eve that means that people must be ruled under an equal government according to the express will of the common consent of the people by a law that guarantees there freedom because God is the source of the world and all people which means that governments on earth have no right to enforce things that remove people's freedom as it is not theres to take in the first place(as we are all children of Adam and therefore have equal entitlement to the world). 'so that the foundation of all government must be for the purpose of leaving the natural state of nature that gives one person power other another and where none is safe in there property. The purpose of a common wealth is to surrender by common consent your freedom to the magistrate that it may guarantee you a secure freedom not found in the state of nature under natural freedom....When one person trys to impose there will or design on another person's life they commit war against someone's freedom and therefore the whole society because if his will is to take away the freedom that the common wealth was designed for he commits war against its entire foundations and purpose'.
     
  11. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    So, under Islam...women don't get to have multiple husbands because they aren't as horny as men. Gay people can get it on with each other but will only avoid punishment if they "repent".
    Well colour me unconvinced that it's something worth following.

    Now...how about apostates? How does Islam suggest we treat apostates?
    Equally? Just leave them alone to get on with their apostasy?
     
  12. Spirit Warrior

    Spirit Warrior Valued Member

    John Locke also explains 'if one is to be bound by a law it must be one which he himself can consent to, to establish a common duty for everyone under one society and one law how can he expect then but to treat others with freedom as he would enjoy to himself which is the ability to live freely and unharmed, such is his duty to all in society'
     
  13. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    hey, i don't know about you guys, but when i go to church now (the two or three times a year my mother or mother-in-law forces me to bring my kids), i pretty much take the whole time fantasizing boffing all the hot middle age women at church, sometimes the fantasy involves boffing them IN the church! (this includes my wife) what else is an atheist supposed to do in church anyway?

    "oh your non-offensive church gown is so sexy..." and "i love the way your cross hangs on your neck."

    <i'm actually not kidding>

    clearly, the muslims are on to something here.
     
  14. Giovanni

    Giovanni Well-Known Member Supporter

    @blade96, interesting thing about about hijabs....

    it was not that long ago that a women in what we would now consider "italy" could not leave the house without a head covering. nor could they be seen cavorting with a man in public, that's not their brother or husband. they definitely could not be caught in a carriage with, gasp, a male friend. apparently, this is a known thing to older italian people i've spoken to. sound familiar?
     
  15. Blade96

    Blade96 shotokan karateka

    it does,actually.
     
  16. Kuma

    Kuma Lurking about

    The problem is, their definition of slavery at the time is completely different than the ones Americans immediately think of. Slavery at the time was more of an indentured servitude, one entered willingly by the person itself so they could get a job and get paid. This was often an appealing thing as if you couldn't get a job there obviously was nothing to fall back on like we have today. So though the Bible does state slavery, it's not the slavery we immediately think of. In fact, there are many parts of the Bible incorporated designed to protect the "slaves" - you couldn't hurt or kill them, couldn't make them work on Sunday, talk ill of them, etc. Most only lasted for 7 years and then they were free (Jacob working 7 years for a wife is one example in the Bible of how this process worked - during the time he got quite wealthy).

    So yes, the Bible does say slavery is OK, but the slavery that was current at the time. In fact, during those times if you were caught kidnapping someone and selling them into slavery you could be put to death.
     
  17. Grass hopper

    Grass hopper Valued Member

    Oh, so it was nice slavery, ok. Except it does say you can own a slave for life and pass them down as heirlooms. Provided they aren't Israelites. I think we can all agree that slavery in any form is bad. To argue otherwise is asinine.
     
  18. Grass hopper

    Grass hopper Valued Member

    So we agree religious doctrine shouldn't be law. But lets look at the religious doctrine itself, shall we? We have to use sound logic, and no falling back of "just because"

    Why is slavery ok?

    Why is homosexuality not ok?

    Why are garments with mixed fabrics bad?

    Why should handicapped people not approach the altar?

    All those rules are pulled directly from Leviticus, so they are the words of god himself.
     
  19. Spirit Warrior

    Spirit Warrior Valued Member

    as stated before the slavery of the bible was more like servitude and there is a different between a slave and a servant. Secondly homosexuality is not viewed as ok because people of that time viewed the purpose of a sexual relationship to bare children. The handicapped thing was also seen as unnatural but I agree that was wrong. The thing about mixed fabrics is just tradition. But I would like to clarify something, I am not a Christian and the chapter of Levitus comes from a human being named Moses who was imperfect but the fact is human history is about progression and compared with the other doctrines of the time the bible was far more sophisticated (some ways of life were even practicing child sacrifice) and like I showed before religion whilst it has bad parts that are capitalized on by bad people was also a major source of progression for society during the time of the enlightenment and the new testament can be viewed as a next step in progression Jesus says nothing about homosexuality and advocates the same peace that people like martin luther king aspired to; he frequently breaks with the traditions of the old testament which is why he was crucified such as when he showed compassion to the prostitute Mary Magdeline when other rabis would shun such women.
     
  20. Grass hopper

    Grass hopper Valued Member

    So we can agree that the rules laid down in abrahamic religions are absurd. Yet so many people live by them. I don't understand why somebody would choose a religion with such things as these. Also, I'd be interested to know where you get your information about slavery during biblical times, I'm not saying you're making it up, please don't think I am. It's just that I've never heard that before and would like some more info.
     

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