Why is Western Boxing not considered to be a "True" Martial Art?

What difference does it make how old the thread is?

I fought in 1983. That's older than the thread, no? I went five and four. I won the BC Silver Gloves in my last fight. I had three fights in one day at one tournament in Washington State and two fights in Burnaby BC at the old Training center in one evening.
I knocked out one kid in the first round. Right out. And I was stopped on my feet in another fight -- RSC.
I probably won't bother coming back here. Why am I looking for help?
Prose? I have been published a published book. I have my book in two local libraries and three pieces published in SubTerrain Magazine a snobby literary quarterly.
Anyway, it doesn't matter.

 

x

 

Da topographical map of Utah are you calling a jock sniffer? You need to chill out

 

Okay, sorry.

 

How do I get off of this site? If guys ever find out that I am an ex-fighter they tell me I studied martial arts! They get all puffed up. Why do I care? Seriously?

 

I'd like to hear about your fights and so forth, we don't have a lot of pure boxers on here - I think you're getting too put out by the martial arts terminology.

 

As someone who boxed for a number of years (had a few more than 9 fights though), i welcome you to map, further more, if anyone tells you boxing isn't a martial art, they are delusional, it is as much a martial art as judo, wrestling or muay thai.

 

If you haven't noticed by the tone of this thread (from nine years ago), most were laughing at the question. Of course boxing is a martial art. If there is anyone on this forum (MAP) that thinks boxing is not a martial art, I'm pretty sure they are in the minority on that opinion.

However, we like to mess around with semantics sometimes. Maybe to the annoyance of the mods. The term martial arts has a lot of cultural connotations to it. Our modern day definitions might be completely wrong based on the time period and culture. And let's not leave out politics. If you want your system of fighting to appear superior, you are going to call it a martial art and try to discredit the competition (calling them just sport, or incomplete, or any line of reasoning that makes your art look better than theirs).

And with that said, stating "I have studied boxing?" is not ridiculous. There is something you may have forgotten, keep your ego only among friends. Fighters get something called humility the more experienced they get. If you got something to prove, use the motivation, but leave the ego out of it.

 

It is not important whether it is a MARTIAL art. It is an art. I'm not offended by that. Yes, nine fights is not many. I could explain that, but it would just sound like alibis. Let's see? I'll post a story. But there may be a character limit.

 

There is not, go right ahead.

 

I didn't know that. Were you in the ammy's? You'll have to post more on this.

 

At least recommend he start a new thread of his own for it.

Talking story is always good.

 

Knockout (I'm a better writer than I was a fighter)

Knockout

The lighter weights always fight first. The place was filled up now. My coach holds the ropes open and I step into the ring. He tells me this, "He didn't warm up. He's cold.*Knock him out."
The ref asks me how I feel. I tell him I'm dying. He laughs and says, "You'll be all right."

Now all this time, the fear is indescribable. It had nothing to do with this kid or anything. There is something about getting into a ring surrounded by people watching you and fighting.

I'm thinking it's me or him. Over and over, like a drumbeat in my head. I felt like a cornered rat. Scared mean and viscous.
The bell rings. Like most fights, I just remember fragments. It was the same combination, the whole fight, three quick, hard jabs and a right hand. The first knock down I thought he slipped. I didn't feel any contact. It felt like I was punching a sheet hanging on a line -- I was punching right through him.
The second knockdown was -- I started to get excited. I realized that I could get out of there*right now! I never wanted anything so bad in my life.

And then it really hit me I could win!

This kid was backed up on the ropes getting an 8 count.

The ref had waved me to a neutral corner. I looked to the corner where the judges were and there was a lady judge sitting there, she was blond and good looking.

Her lips were parted and her eyes were shiny. She looked hungry.*They all did.*I felt this huge rush of adrenalin. I started to jump up and down in place. The murder came up in my eyes and I turned my eyes on my opponent. I had picked up the count at five.

The ref waved me in and as I closed the distance I felt my head lower and my chin tuck and it was like I was outside of myself and within at the same time. But the point is that I was being careful.

I saw the brass ring. I had him on the hook and I wasn't going to let him off, it was me or him.

Three hard jabs and he brings his gloves in front of his face. He's trying to hide behind his gloves.

Now here is the peroration of my whole story. I saw an opening, a space between his head gear and his gloves.*It was like the clouds parting for the sun. Time warped, slipped away, disappeared, it was a moment frozen in time. I was in hyper focus.

I decided that my glove would fit through that little opening. I pulled the trigger and knocked him out. At the moment of impact, I twisted my hip into the punch. I put my ass into it. A perfect right hand and the hardest punch I ever threw and I could really punch. That punch would have knocked out any amateur anywhere.

He went down and his neck was on the bottom strand and his eyes were wide open but sightless, he was out cold, out of this world. The doctor came running.

I looked into the audience. Two teenage girls, about 18, were looking at me, their eyes shiny with lust. I thought: so that's the way it is –*power!

There was such a confluence of feelings going through me -- deep, deep pathos. I thought: this is one messed up world.

I didn't prance around with my gloves held high. He was just a kid. But it was me or him. And I decided it had to be me.
So I hug this kid. He looked resentful. My coach is spreading the ropes for me. I tell him, "I still don't like it." Then I start snickering, "I could learn to like it." He tells me, "They won't all be this easy."
I beat the next guy. He ran and held.

There was a three-hour break until the finals. I was tired, I was emotionally spent. I didn't want that last fight. And I had seen the guy fight and I really didn't know how I was going to beat him.

I later learnt that he had lied to get into the tournament. He had 7 fights going in, instead of five. I had one, as I said. One of the guys he beat told me that.

He stopped me with a right hand that hurt me and I got an eight count and I rushed in and got caught again. I never went down. RSC.

Referee stops contest and he stopped it in the second round. I was taking a beating.

Yes, I felt ashamed. A lot of people wanted me to win. There is a lot of racial **** in the states.

I'm not really a fighter. I made myself do it. I wanted to be like my friend, Jamie Ollenberger. I admired fighters. I got a very late start and what success I did have was because I had very heavy hands.

Once I asked a very good retired fighter and trainer, Hedgman Lewis, a welterweight active in the late sixties if I could even call myself a fighter. He said, "You got in there. You fought."

I didn't have much of a career. I was basically 50/50.

 

I've heard people say that boxing is not violence. I mean boxers. They get defensive. The truth is it IS violence. My first fight:
The people I had invited seemed to be in a hurry to leave. Most of them had never been to a boxing card before. My roommate, Julie, told me that she was shocked. She expected to see a boxing match and instead she saw two guys having a fight, two people trying to hurt each other.
The guy I fought had nobody. Their gym over there, they didn't even have a ring.
After my fight, I showered and changed and sat down to watch the rest of the card. I'm sitting next to Jamie. He whispers to me, "Look at your opponent." I look and feel a physical shock. His nose is going in three different directions. He had a long pointy nose, not ideal for boxing. I got my crash course that night. Boxing is violence, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. But that's what makes it so intensely real.

 

I like it. Pretty riveting.

 

Yeah, i was for a bit, granted, my time in as an amateur was mostly me trying to come to terms with the lack of a growth spurt i had, and having to completely change from the rangy boxer i was as a kid into a tenacious body fighter, still, it all went by the by when my dad died, and i spent the next five years on a psychedelic voyage to nowhere in particular.

 

He's here now though, so why not?

 

Quite a nice insight bodypro8, i must admit, i never really thought that far into it, but i wasn't a particularly deep person when i was boxing, still, you got quite a way with words.

 

Talking story is fun. I enjoyed it.

Interesting that you exploited an opening. That's good tactics. Maybe that's one of the ways I'm hardwired differently. I rarely ever see anything right beforehand. I see the beginning, then see things after they already happened. Maybe my brain needs time to catch up to fill in that gap in time.

 

Okay, everyone, I've had to erase two instances of masked profanity. That kind of language is against TOS, so please refrain from using it here on MAP.

bodypro8, personal attacks/insults of the kind you've used in post 21 (jock sniffers) is also in violation of TOS. Do find another way to express your dissatisfaction without resorting to insults.