Silientmonk got me thinking of. why is the US division of WKSA so slow to implement the updates to the curriculum? Is it because their are just more schools over here? Is it because their are more higher ranked school owners/ masters over here? Or it is just good ole American stuberness? Tell me what you think.
As someone who has only been in Kuk Sool for a little over a year, it would help to know what updates you are referring to. I'm not necessarily looking for descriptions of upper level techniques that I'm not privy to, but rather are techniques being removed, changed, moved to a different portion of the syllabus etc. Are hyung being changed? I'm certainly aware of things we do differently at our school than what I believe is currently "standard". Are you calling standard what is currently in the textbooks/handbooks/videos and testing chart online?
here's the curriculum,Official WKSA Adult Under BB curriculum here is what has been moved. At yellow belt: Ahn Sohn Mohk Soo Added breaking (palm strike) At Blue belt: Maek Cha Ki Joo muhk maga ki bon soo At Red belt: Jung geup sohn mohk soo Ahp eue bok soo At: Brown belt Di eue bok soo Dahn bo Nym 2+ stripes or new black stripe belt Everything else Now whether or not you agree with the "revision" of the curriculum isnt the question. (I'll make another thread for that and we can debate the pros and cons, and any other comments that one may have.) The question is why are the changes taking sooo long to make, since it was the school owners in the states that pushed for the changes.
LOL.... this is a simple question!!! its because WKSA in the US sends out no notifications like letters to say the syllabus has changed it just does and you only find out about it when you go and look in the syllabus section. Its all word of mouth... If it is any concellation i dont teach the new syllabus because the old system works just as well. I have had no reasons from anyone in the WKSA as to why we have changed it this way or why we have moved this set of techs of made a yellow to blue belt candidate break a board with a palm instead of a spin kick. At the end of the day my black belts will know as much as a new black from a class where they are currently teaching the New syllabus. Cheers
As best I can tell, I don't remember the exact chart at our school, we go by the official chart except we still do spin kick to test for blue and a bottle break to test for red. This of course doesn't take into account the subtle ways we do techniques and hyung differently as well, but I don't think that's what you're interested in. I would say that it all stems from the same thing however, the masters are used to doing things a certain way and they haven't been given a good reason to change what they're doing. Perhaps they have good reasons in their minds for keeping the chart as they were used to. In your estimation, how many schools don't follow the official curriculum exactly? How many school owners in the U.S. pushed for the changes? How many of the holdouts are higher ranking masters used to doing things a certain way? What are the consequences for not following the official chart? How many people (students & masters) actually care enough to follow the chart exactly?
Having looked at the Adult curriculum, we seem to be using that one over here. I suppose I am intersted in what it used to be, and when did it change to this? Our school is just 2 years old this month and thus if the curriculum changed before that then this is why we are following the new curriculum I suppose. As to why haven't others switched to this (in the U.S. anyway as per the thread), one has to ask what are the penalties for not imposing the new curriculum? What does the WKSA do to enforce the curriculum being tought the way they state, and what is the auditing route for the WKSA to ensure that all schools are following the curriculum the same? In some respects one wonders if there is nothing to force the School Owners to teach the new curriculum then one wonders why they would change? (As an aside what was the reason for the change in the curriculum?)
Have to say great posts by everyone, To answer some of the questions I would bet they are actually better. IDK the exact amount but If I use Texas as a reference, I'd say 2/3's of the schools haven't completly changed. Again IDK, I do know of two prominent school owners in houston area, were at the forefront. Again IDK Sadly nothing, This is why I have been sooo adamant about having a QC "divsion" in WKSA, it needs one. Right now the only quality control is at tournaments and testing, one of the reasons I take those two things very seriously when judging. It shouldnt be about caring, it should be about keeping a promise to the public and the students that WKSA is standarized, you should be able to go from one school to the other without any hitches. Officially, 2005. They (certain school owners) said that the old curriculum was too hard/too much for the average adult to memorize, and that they were losing people before BB. Which is why it was changed because WKSA doesnt really get any money from you until you are testing for BB. My view on this is, good let it be hard for the average person, it shouldnt be easy to get a Blackbelt. Also I feel that these school owners wanted to do less for the same amount of money. (Now that said, I know the amount of work it takes to run a school, and although I am critical of the school owners, I understand that they would actually like to enjoy their life instead of having to teach all the time, and I applaud those who would want to be a school owner) To be fair, Im not a school owner. I dont want to be one until I retire from my professional career. So some would say I have no right to complain.
junior YELLOW STRIPE Ki Bohn Soo (1-5) Ki Cho Hyung (1-3) YELLOW BELT Ki Bohn Soo (1-10) Ki Cho Hyung BLUE STRIPE Ki Bohn Soo (1-15) Cho Geup Hyung BLUE BELT Sohn Mohk Soo (1-5) Cho Geup Hyung Palm break RED STRIPE Sohn Mohk Soo (1-11) Joong Geup Hyung RED BELT Eue Bohk Soo (1-6) Joong Geup Hyung Spin Kick break BROWN STRIPE Eue Bohk Soo (1-13) Goh Geup Hyung BROWN BELT Ahn Sohn Mohk Soo (1-6) Goh Geup Hyung High/Low Spin Kick break BLACK STRIPE Maek Chi Ki (1-15) Dae Geup Hyung BL/BR BELT Maek Cha Ki (1-15) Dae Geup Hyung 2 boards Adv. Kicks BLACK BELT Stripe 3-5 Joo Muhk Maga Ki Bohn Soo (15) 6 Joong Geup Sohn Mohk Soo (7) 7 Ahp Eue Bohk Soo (1-10) 8-9 Ahp Eue Bohk Soo (11-20) Guhm Moo Hyung 3 boards Adv. Kicks. youth YELLOW STRIPE Ki Bohn Soo (1-5) Ki Cho Hyung (1-3) YELLOW BELT Ki Bohn Soo (1-15) Ki Cho Hyung 1 board Palm BLUE STRIPE Sohn Mohk Soo (11) Cho Geup Hyung BLUE BELT Eue Bohk Soo (13) Cho Geup Hyung 2 boards Palm RED STRIPE Ahn Sohn Mohk Soo(6) Joong Geup Hyung RED BELT Maek Chi Ki (15) Joong Geup Hyung 1 board Spin Kick BROWN STRIPE Maek Cha Ki (15) Goh Geup Hyung BROWN BELT Joo Muhk Maga Ki Bon Soo (15) Goh Geup Hyung High &Low Spin Kick BLACK STRIPE Joong Geup Sohn Mohk Soo (7) Dae Geup Hyung BL / BR BELT Ahp Eue Bohk Soo (20) Dae Geup Hyung 3 boards Adv. Kicks BLACK BELT TESTS Stripe 3-5. Dee Eue Bohk Soo (23) 6. Kwahn Juhl Ki (13) 7. Too Ki (13) 8. Mohk Joul Li Ki (5) 9. Bahng Too Ki (10) Guhm Moo Hyung 4 boards Adv. Kicks
I can see some benefits to having a QC entity. It would ensure that all the techniques etc. being taught were sound and that students are receiving quality instruction. That way KSW as a whole would not get a poor reputation based upon a few poor schools and all the masters would be made aware of broad changes in curriculum etc. But how far would this QC go? What could they do to ensure that schools don't just go back to doing what they want only to modify things a bit for tournament? I know that's what we do. I have to relearn a form for tournament and will have to relearn it again for testing at my school but it's not the end of the Earth. We do a few techniques differently so I stay away from performing those at tournament which is fine because I like the way we do our techniques. I don't know what kind of language is in the contract between school owners and the WKSA and I don't know how much they would go for any kind of punitive actions taken against them for not following KSW curriculum to the letter exactly as it is in every book, video, picture, chart, etc. I think you might have a bit of a mutiny. I would see the QC as being advisory at most. Is this actually a big issue? I understand the principle behind what you are saying, but are there that many students out there who switch to or visit another school and find it so radically different that are upset and quit or make a negative comment? I personally like learning the subtle differences between schools and ways of doing techniques. You might find doing something a slightly different way happens to work better for you. Do you want KSW schools to be like Taco Bell where every taco tastes the same from restaurant to restaurant, or do you want them to be like authentic mexican food restaurants where they all serve salsa that has the same basic ingredients but each still has its own unique flavor? Here you actually defend, to a degree, keeping the old curriculum. Don't you think some masters might feel this way as well which is why they've held onto parts of the old curriculum? Ultimately, other than having their students compete better at tournament which is hardly proper motivation, I think without an edict it will just take time to settle in.
IDK, lets ask some of them on MAP. But if WKSA would give them a percentage (lets say 50%) of the BB testing fees, Tournament fees, and maybe even seminar fees; If the school owner didnt abide by the "rules" that would be taken away. Although I dont know how much that would affect them, becasue they don't get any of that money now anyway. No it isnt, but what if someone were to transfer from a school that used the old curriculum to a school that used the new? Say a Red belt, that red belt would be well far ahead of his/her new classmates. Would the owner go ahead and award them the coresponding rank to what they know, or would the school owner make the student test for that rank and pay the resulting fees, and wait time. Wouldnt that upset you? So do I, but Im not talking aout the subtle differences, Im talking about the drastic ones. And before you ask they are some schools that differ drastically from the text. Mexican food upsets my stomach, maybe thats the tequilla. Yes I do/did prefer the old curriculum, but thats not the piont. The piont is that WKSA has said this is the way its going to be. So I do it. Shouldnt those Instructors trust/respect KSN/WKSA enough to go ahead and accept those changes ASAP? And I do understand that its only been two years, and with the size of the Assc. that might take awhile. Hey its taken 50 years for KSN to make WKSA/KSW known, maybe the next will be ensuring thats its completly standard.
I think that would definitely get their attention. But you're now advocating a very drastic change in corporate policy in regards to revenue sharing. Not that I necesarily disagree with your proposal, but that would be a huge change and I don't know if KSN cares that much about whether or not schools follow the curriculum perfectly. That's not intended as an insult, he may simply have a different perspective in terms of the need for WKSA to have enough revenue at the organizational level. I assume the owner and prospective student would address that in their initial meeting in the office. Chances are the owner would want to "evaluate" the student to ensure that they were a capable student with a solid understanding. So basically, they would have to wait. In addition I believe the rules state that you only take your rank with you and as stripes are not technically a rank, you would lose that as well. I don't know if that applies to DBN stripes as well, but it sure would be frustrating to lose 5 or so stripes. Yes, it would upset me and this is a valid point. But until this is a more common occurence and prospective students decide against signing up due to it, IMO it won't necessarily be that much of an incentive to change. Out of curiosity, what are the more drastic differences? I'm not asking you to call out schools, just the style & content difference. I agree that it shouldn't be that much asking to adjust the curriculum as long as thay have covered it all and competently performed it by the time they have their final test for BB, however I've only been at this for a little over a year. If I was a high ranking master my perspective on what I thought was the right thing to do might be different.
Nope. Reality check. Nobody is going to take stripes off your belt. They won't strip you of your stripe, just make you learn up to where you are before heading on.
In some cases it might make sense to take stripes off or add more when a student transfers. This particularly true for young kids. The reason could be as simple as the color of the stripes don't match to those being used at the new school. I know they are supposed to be the color of the next belt but not everyone follows that. For young kids it is common to give many stripes on a white belt, but multiple stripes are not standardized by the association. Therefore if you get a transfer student you may need to adjust them to your standard. This could be easier than explaning to the other kids in class why they have as many stripes as they do.
Another reason instructors are slow to change is because they would like to teach as they were taught. Or maybe they don't want to water down the art.
I dont get it either, KS isnt being "watered down" just because things are getting moved back, watered down would be taking things out, not moving them around. ALL the material is still there, the new people just get it taught latter, but still before they are promoted to Blackbelt.
