Why is Taekwondo always considered weak and ineffective? *conversation included*

If it didnt look something close to this

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVXsqXJ5MVM"]YouTube - Taekwon-do Black Belt Grading[/ame]

then maybe he might want to investigate some other clubs, this from my tiny experience does seem to be considered the norm.

 

Hmm I can agree with you there, Taekwondo appears to be flawed because I think most of the time, Taekwondo schools focus on teaching the forms and the sparring, rather than using techniques to use in a real life combat situation. I also believe that schools should start incorporating grappling and ground techniques just to show students a different situation in fighting. Although I am in no way saying that forms are useless and have no meaning because they do. Point sparring is also good for a sport.

 

I am not sure if anyone noticed, but this testing included movie star Dev Patel, who played in the oscar winning picture Slumdog Millionaire.
He also played another major part that actually had some MA action in it, but I am drawing a blank on this movie that came out this year.
You see this is an original TKD type school, which has the MAIN FOCUS on SD. While they also do patterns & sports comp sparring, they focus on SD. This was what TKD was originaly designed for. But the leadrs of KMAs outside of the military, who were also not 1st generation leaders, emphasized the sport side. It was how they picked to move away from the karate roots

 

Ok this is a common mistake about TKD. Sport TKD as governed by the KTA, KKW & WTF places a great deal of emphasis on the feet. There are basically no points ever awarded for a punch. the only hand technique allowed in their sports rules are a punch with the forefist to only the chest area.
In the ITF sports rules, all hand techniques are allowed to the same legal target areas as the feet. There is no difference in target area that can be attacked with the hands & feet.

Now in original TKD, which was designed in the ROK Army by Gen choi & his soldiers, he states that his original TKD has some 3,200 fundamental movements, with approximately 2/3rds being related to the hands & only 1/3rd releated to the feet.
So I am thinking that the fact that so many people consider TKD to be 70-75% feet, is most likely because of the Olympic sports match rule set. In ITF TKD, hands comprised about 66%, while feet only about 33%.
Another factor that feeds this IMHO mistaken impression is that it was TKD & the Koreans that added so many kicks, fancy, flashy, high kicks & flying kicks. So this also made TKD appear to be a kicking Art. However Original TKD is not. It is a mix of MAs or a consolidation of MAs

 

Re: TKD grading video: A 2.5 hour written exam? What does a theoretical exam have to do with demonstrating one's ability to fight?

There is no way that anybody can tell me that there is any situation that relates directly to fighting, that should be tested on paper as opposed to a real demonstration.

1:48 Here we see the ancient technique of punching a cushion. Certainly this demonstrates a true masters fighting ability.

2:16 Static partners, ftw! This is the sort of demonstration I expect from a student learning a new technique, not a person demonstrating their mastery of said technique.

This video seems to me to demonstrate everything wrong with TKD

My partner has almost convinced me that TKD might not completely suck, but if this is what the good schools are producing, then I need to reconsider my partners sanity.

 

It doesn't. It does however show if you understand why you do what you do, if you can pass that understanding on to others, have thought beyond fighting, dissected elements from your training etc etc etc.
You know...all that important stuff.
Holding pads has nothing to do with your ability to fight but it's a vital skill for training.
I'm as interested in people being graded on ability to actually motor as much as the next man but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to think and explain as well.

 

I can't see how this school is self defence focused when all you see are patterns, breaking, step 'sparring', complient self defence moves that look suspect in execution and really bad sparring. I'm not trying to be insulting - if that is a forum members school - but I can't see the self defence focus when nobody looks like they can really fight.:ban:

 

Er..... for those who have not been keeping up with current events, I direct your attention to the tenor of this thread.

Even when people can make an intelligent arguement for enhancing the combat effectiveness of TKD, it remains that a goodly portion of the practicing public don't want to go that route. Its not that they might not want people to THINK they have learned some deadly art. What I am saying is that most folks do not want to pay the commitment and conditioning and training cost of practicing what would be tantamont to a full-contact practice. Its nicer to SAY that their art is combat worthy....and so are they...than to actually train that way. FWIW.

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

Original TKD was started as a KMA of SD in the ROK Army. It went to the civilian side all around the world & has become more than just SD. If you wish only or 100% SD, then of course you would be better to train in a center that focuses soley on that goal. However Original TKD also imparts many other things to those that participate in it, besides SD. Having a written exam, at all test levels, helps to ensure that students have also learned & retained those aspects as well to an acceptable level.

 

Great point!
Many just are not willing to pay the price & as such, schools don't want to lose money & close down!

 

A good point. I think with TKD a certain person is attracted to it where by they can get away with being a high grade without showing an ability to fight or deal with violence. I think some might start TKD and leave for something more hardcore and a few stay. Those few are then used by everyone to show TKD effectivness even if the person showing them as an example cant d o it themselves. One fairly good TKD guy doing ok in MMA or kickboxing and he gets ridiculus praise. It needs every blackbelt being at the same level and decent. It doesnt have to be amazing just a constant. Theres some awful blackbelts out there.

 

Amen!
I might also be a smart aleck by saying that it does seem to be a constant already, constant poor!

 

Indeed! And this is not to say that a person can't make something more out of their chosen practice than simply what a given school requires or intends. In the KYUKUSHIN school I attended there were folks who wanted to compete, folks who wanted to train and folks who had almost a maniacal dedication to being able to destroy anything in front of them. Same school; different agendas. The first group tended to train for promotions and competitions and tests. The second group essentially treated the class as their regular workout. The last group were the ones who wanted to leave the nastiest bruises, conditioned thewmselves for breaking and occasionally had to get reined-in when they started to slip over-the-top.

I find the same thing in Hapkido. There are the hobbyists and recreationalists and then there are the folks who appraoch what they do almost like a religion. Different strokes for.....

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

Cant deny that one,
as recently mentioned in this threads parent thread.
a 5 year min.training requirement before even going for a BB grading, would be a good start to repairing TKD's reputation (rather than say 2yrs @ present at some dojangs).

 

Allow me to address your points, seeing as its a video from my school that has been posted. First all of however, let me say this, its not a SD grading, but a TKD grading, that includes SD elements, as well as other elements required to progress in TKD, such as patterns etc. Also, we have revise our grading structure since this video was shot, for example, we seperated the sparring into different types such as compeition sparring and traditional sparring (which is closer to a fight).

It doesnt, its a TKD exam, so the theory paper is mostly on TKD. However, the exam can also include such things as questions colour codes, target hardening, enviromental awareness etc. which are all things associated with self protection.

I take it this was a joke right? They are boards being broken, one black, one cream - again, its a TKD grading and breaking is part of TKD. Unfortunatly, the original video had the noise of the boards breaking, but YouTube forced the soundtrack to be replaced and now it cant be heard!

Thats one step - this is how traditional one step in TKD is performed (albeit with the student demonstarting a 'funky' version) - its not a SD test, but a TKD one-step test.

Then please show me a video of the TKD you do so as I can learn the right way!

And you train where my friend?


regards,

Stuart

Ps. For those that are interested, more BB grading videos can be found here: http://www.raynerslanetkd.com/Reels_Active_01.html

And videos of some of our regular training can be found here: http://www.raynerslanetkd.com/Reels_Active_02.html

 

My opinion as an outsider to TKD is that nothing shown in those videos^^ looks anything like type of TKD of past practice (as it being described in this thread ie a hard, functional, eclectic art of military descent) nor does it look like the manifestation of the ideas expressed here in terms of progressive training directions that turn students into people who can fight to the same level as other standup arts/sports. To my mind it pretty much conforms to all the negative stereotypes about TKD training in general especially with regards to how it holds up against other types of training such as mauy thai and knockdown karate etc. It looks like a fun school to train TKD but it doesn't do anything assuage TKD's ill repute amoung hard sparring combat sports/martial arts.

I'm not trying to be abusive or confrontational that's just how I feel. Unless I specifically wanted to train in TKD I wouldn't be enticed to train there. I don't expect my opinion to be as important to others as it is to me though

 

I wouldnt expect anyone to train there who wasnt interested in TKD.. afterall, its a TKD school!!!

Stuart

 

I like this view Killa. I would be the first to admit that TKD can look aesthetically pleasing...even artistically beautiful...BUT, while aspiring for that technical appearance, much of the functionality has gone out of the window. Alongside that loss of functional applications is a mindset of delusion concerning actual capability. I still hope that, for the benefit of TKD, some return to effectiveness and reality may be seen. After all, TKD is the most popular martial sport and people judge the rest of us on what they see and experience in TKD!

Respectfully

Peter

 

Well spotted Stuart!

 

At the end of the day, regardless of whether people are training correctly or not etc we really only have 2 methods of determining this on the forum.

1) as currently is the case, people can talk about it and nothing goes anywhere because lets face it, no matter what they post or in which way, you "refuse to believe" anything that doesnt support the viewpoint you already hold.

2) people can post vids, links, records etc of all the great TKD fighters out there. As the most popular martial art in the world they have numbers on their side. The law of probability alone suggests that, if indeed it is equal to all others, then there'd be as many, if not more fighters out there tearing up the ranks. There aren't. There you go. Irrefutable proof. If you can prove me wrong and attempt to do so WITHOUT posting a video of serkan yilmaz I'll be amazed but concede the point.