Why is Taekwondo always considered weak and ineffective? *conversation included*

Discussion in 'Tae Kwon Do' started by TaeAno, Oct 4, 2010.

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  1. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    Fricken Usain Bolt. You can't even run from him. ;)
  2. Peter Lewis

    Peter Lewis Matira Matibay

    Brilliant Aaron. :cool:
  3. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    I personaly think the gradings should be like Judo or BJJ where you have to show competance with some kind of competative fighting. If you want to train and not do that then fair enough yet you dont get the grade. People just after grades would then bugger off. It takes more self motivation to do that than just 'perform' on a grade and get the belt. Gradings in TKD just seem more about 'performance'. I even heard dan grades advising to play act on one step and cheesy stuff like that. Some of TKD is just realy corny.
    I know some will say TKD is not just about competative fighting its SD but theres still a cross over and its still the best way to safely test fundamentals skills and movement and if there were different types with less rules a TKDer could show as much of the stuff that works as possible, safely and against other skilled people.
  4. Cait

    Cait da Bionic is BACK!

    Some schools do test like that, Badger. In mine, for example, they had to demonstrate the physical knowledge portion (punches, kicks, etc, also that they know the Korean), the book knowledge portion, and then put it all together with SD and fighting/sparring (we'd get pretty un-traditional with the sparring, too!). Students weren't allowed to test until invited by an instructor who had deemed them ready.

    It's tough going tho. In a well-to-do area of Northern Virginia, we were the only school out of about 10 (in a 30-40 mile radius) that wasn't a belt factory. But the more schools that try to change the status quo, the sooner it'll catch on.
  5. StuartA

    StuartA Guardian of real TKD :-)

    Or maybe just fighting - our traditional sparring allows much stuff not allowed in comp sparring and trying to do it with just comp style against another sees the comp guy get done pretty quickly.

    As I said - traditional sparring, proper hosinsul, pattern apps :) mixed in with all the other bits & bobs required IMO, makes a good grading

  6. StuartA

    StuartA Guardian of real TKD :-)

    Any vids of your school Cait - sounds very much like a friend of mines in Virginia (grading wise).

    I`ll show ya mine if you show me yours :)

  7. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Re: Grading

    May I say that my first real experience with grading in TKD occurred in downstate Olney, Illinois where a TKD master came to the area to grade a number schools at the same event. The year was somewhere around 1975 or so and there were, perhaps, 100+ students who were testing to the tune of about $30USD. The testing went on for about three hours or so

    and not a single person failed.

    Do the math.

    I can also say that in Hapkido we often have the same experience, but there are teachers who are real sticklers so its not like failing is not totally unknown.
    All the same, there is no real uniform curriculum or standardized testing so often the testing is highly variant from location to location and organization to organization. The GEUP-s actually get tested harder that the BB and testing becomes increasingly vague and more dependent on time in grade as one goes further. A rather large proportion of groups simply do not test after 3rd BB, choosing instead to award belts based on "experience". As a result Hapkido can get a bad rap much like TKD. Its not uncommon to find a person representing themselves as a "Hapkido Master"---say 5th or 6th Dan--- and not really knowing much in-depth about what they are doing.

    It is also rather easy to spot the wannabees as they are the one's who are rather reluctant to get out on the mat at large gatherings. They may have some high rank, but given how they may have achieved that rank, they don't have the confidence in their performance to be publicly assessed by their peers.

    Whatcha gonna do?

    Best Wishes,

  8. StuartA

    StuartA Guardian of real TKD :-)

    Yup - 100 X $30 + $3,000 ie. no fails :) (though Im sure a couple of lost bucks would do wonder for their rep!)

    We test maybe 1 or 2 at at time - cost equals hall costs + examiners expenses (execpt me) expences (usualy works out about £130). Have held approx six gradings from 2004, with failures sometimes - no maths needed - attain the required level or fail - videos on the web site for those in doubt http://www.raynerslanetkd.com/RL_Black_Belts.html

    Same in TKD my friend.

    Walk the walk, not just talk the talk - be the change you wanna see!

    Last edited: Oct 20, 2010
  9. Cait

    Cait da Bionic is BACK!

    Sadly, no. Especially since I'm in Utah now. I do have an opportunity coming up to start teaching again, so I'll keep you posted!
  10. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    Testing serves a purpose (just as it does in school), but I do agree with what you are saying. Lets face it a university is a commercial enterprise. You get your 'certificate of mastery' and the same is true for a typical martial arts school.

    But any school instructor knows how a student will suddenly put forth a ton of effort right before they become eligible to test. And it is a sad thing. Because what you really want to impart (just like you'd like to impart at a university) is a love of the subject matter and NOT the rank. And when you succeed in doing that working hard on the technique is its own reward. You don't need tests to motivate you.

    In other words I totally agree with what you are saying. The question then becomes is it a necessary evil. In your experience you are saying, 'it is not necessary' and you are probably right. TKD has this love of organizations and structure and all this stuff. I don't know if we could pull off a no testing/no rank system.
  11. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    This looks like a progressive school that produces quality fighters...

    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaSKdXq4Ii4"]YouTube - Martial arts[/ame]
  12. Peter Lewis

    Peter Lewis Matira Matibay

    Hahahahaha Enter The Dragon!!!
  13. Matt F

    Matt F Valued Member

    Yea definitly. When I say competative I dont just mean TKD rules competitions. I mean a competition against unknows outside class where as many aspects of what that grade is meant to know are incorporated. So if ,for a grade, for example that trainee should know some throws heshould prove himself in fightS involving throws.ETC ETC Sparring in class or even gradings can lack an edge and be a bit too friendly and 'oh you got me well done '. Maybe the grade is just given when the instructor sees a person shows competance. Like BJJ .
  14. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    Fricken heck!!!! All these years of playing Street Fighter I REALLY wanted to learn the Hadoken. And only now learn that someone actually teaches it? And against dragons no less!!
  15. Killa_Gorillas

    Killa_Gorillas Banned Banned

    I can approximate Blanka's electricity move depending on what sort of jumper I'm wearing... but thats about it :)
  16. aaron_mag

    aaron_mag New Member Supporter

    Ha ha! Good one. :)
  17. TaeAno

    TaeAno Certified Ninja

    Wow! I haven't checked the forums in forever and it's great to see everyones replies and opinions on this subject! I refuse to believe Taekwondo is an inferior fighting style!
  18. TKDstudent

    TKDstudent Valued Member

    Well it can be inferior, if trained that way, without realism & a focus on SD & real fighting & not sports match stuff, imo
  19. Bruce W Sims

    Bruce W Sims Banned Banned

    Mmmmm.....IMHO I believe it is counter-productive to think like that.....and at any rate, I'm not sure thats what people are saying. At least I know thats not what I have been saying. Rather, the point I have been working to make is that where TKD is flawed, there is an opportunity to "up-grade" it, even if not everyone is interested in doing so. Once again, the art I teach, YON MU KWAN may be of some help.

    My own teacher reported that he taught the "skeleton" of the art, and it was incumbent on practitioners of YMK Hapkido to "flesh-out" their studies where they had the greatest interest. In my own case, I did not have much interest in, say, the ground-fighting material which others really enjoyed. In my case I fell in love with the sword, and to a lesser degree the cord-work (K. "jul"). Other would probably be bored with my choice the way I might be bored with theirs, but in both cases we seek to up-grade our practice.

    In the case of TKD I don't think the word "inferior" and "flawed" can be used equally. To me the term "inferior" suggests a fundamental and unchanging state, whereas "flawed" indicates a condition which may well be corrected. IMHO; YMMV.

    Best Wishes,

  20. dianhsuhe

    dianhsuhe Co-Founder: Glow-Do


    Just checking in to see if the TKD folks have incorporated he effective us of hand techniques yet.

    Granted I only suggested the addition yesterday...

    A friend of mine got his blackbelt in TKD and I attended the test. You know in the 2-3 hours of techniques there was never a take-down, or contact during the techniques at any time...LOL
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