why is chi kung rubbish

Discussion in 'Internal Martial Arts' started by leftwingtaoist, Dec 12, 2011.

  1. Simon

    Simon Administrator Admin Supporter MAP 2017 Koyo Award

    Mr Leftwingtaoist, if you want believers then you have been directed to a thread where critisism is not allowed. Otherwise all are free to post an opinion.
     
  2. CosmicFish

    CosmicFish Aleprechaunist

    Both of these are examples of misallocation of burden of proof.

    Hannibal doesn't need to provide evidence for his position because his is the position of doubt. As you occupy the position of positive assertion, you have burden of proof for the claims you made. From what I've seen of the other thread, others have posted up sound reasons why they doubt your assertions and have pointed out that the evidence presented is inadequate. Therefore the position of doubt is still the most reasonable by default.

    Similarly, asking PASmith to go and do your work for you is unreasonable. As he has already pointed out, it is a commonly-used tactic employed to divert attention away from the fact that your position has poor evidence to support it. Even if he were to do as you ask, he most likely does not have the resources to do a properly controlled scientific study. The best he could reasonably come up with would be yet another personal anecdote. And, as has also been pointed out by others, anecdotes do not make for good scientific evidence.
     
  3. leftwingtaoist

    leftwingtaoist Valued Member

    and as i said go and read: go and read the post about how chi kung affects bone growth. to start, see what my proposition is exactly (if you want to be all scientific) and then come back and we can talk.
     
  4. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    You quoted Kung Fu Panda, I think that says more about your mental age....
     
  5. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    I'm not really interested in another 'Chi' debate - I've been there and done that several times. I want to address this, though:

    Simply because this is a martial arts discussion board. Just because a topic is posted, say, in 'Internal Martial Arts' subforum, doesn't mean that it is a topic to be discussed only by those who practice Xingyi, Bagua, Taiji etc...
    The same way that there is nothing stopping you from joining a discussion on the Muay Thai forum, nor me from joining in with the Aikido crowd.
    One does not need experience to join a discussion on MAP - that is what makes it a good community; the fact that we are all free to communicate with each other, without the boundaries of 'style vs style' politics.
    You'll come to find that there are many commonalities amongst the martial arts, which means that person A who studies style X may have an experience that ties in with a question that person B has regarding style Y.

    As well as many similarities among the arts, there are fairly common forms of Bovine Excrement that get bandied around in martial art circles - again, practitioners from other styles have experienced such things and can comment on these from their perspective.

    It doesn't matter what shoes you're wearing: you stand in dog-doo, anyone can tell you it's gonna stink. It doesn't mean we all have to go messy our jimmy-choos to be able to tell you so.
     
  6. slipthejab

    slipthejab Hark, a vagrant! Supporter

    Someone by this man a drink! Well said.
     
  7. leftwingtaoist

    leftwingtaoist Valued Member

    no one is truying to prevent people to communicate. i always thought that in communication, if you don't want to sound silly you don't talk about things you don't know anything about as if you are an expert. i would not talk about bjj and spit on its techniques, because i don't know anything about bjj. i never trained bjj and i would probably never do it. but i respect people who do it, and will never go to them and spit on what they do just because i don't like it. which is esactly what all of you guys are doing. but this is why this thread was opened. so keep spitting if that makes you feel better.
     
  8. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    There's nothing wrong with doing Tai chi/Taiji, it's a perfectly valid exercise with some combat applications if applied correctly, I would do it if I could.
     
  9. Smitfire

    Smitfire Cactus Schlong

    What if a BJJ guy came on here and said that BJJ armlocks work because they disrupt the quantum fluctuation of ionised magnetic flow through the synovial fluid of the joints?
    Of course...unless you do BJJ yourself you're in no position to say that's NOT how it works.
    You have to go and do BJJ for 10 years to be able to do that.
     
  10. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    That is the way it works.... Go and take a BJJ class!
     
  11. Dan Bian

    Dan Bian Neither Dan, nor Brian

    People aren't 'Spitting' on Chi Kung because they don't like it. There are people on this forum who have a wealth of experience in a variety of styles. That experience has led them to an understanding of all kinds of physical training methods to improve performance within the martial arts.

    The reason people are sceptical of Chi Kung, is because of the few studies that have been made on the subject, not a single one has shown any benefits that could not have been achieved via 'modern' training methods.

    As has been pointed out, there is a thread specifically for the discussion of Chi and associated topics (chikung) that does not allow 'sceptics'. If you wish to discuss this topic, best to go there.
     
  12. Hannibal

    Hannibal Cry HAVOC and let slip the Dogs of War!!! Supporter

    Face it, he finds it easier to dismiss us than to hold a tenable position. He hasn't grasped a single point made

    And yet WE are closed minded....
     
  13. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    Watch what you are saying there! :)

    Kung Fu Panda is one of my favorite movies of all time and the quote is actually used in mindfulness sessions, 12-step session and Buddhism as a way to promote living for today or better yet in the moment rather than obsessing about the past or the future.

    LeftWingTaoist, an angry Taoist? Perhaps you should spend a little more time working your program?

    Also,
    .

    Using your logic chi gung comes from China, have you ever been to China? If not how do you know it exists? If you have been there and aren't there now how do you know it still exists? When you leave a room and can no longer see what is inside the room do the contents still exist? If you say yes how do you know? You are not experiencing them at that moment.

    You are invalidating reality. Not a healthy way to live or think. :hat:
     
  14. Pretty In Pink

    Pretty In Pink Moved on MAP 2017 Gold Award

    Oh I know where it comes from, and what it means, I just find it funny that rather than quote the original author, he picked Kung Fu Panda :hat:
     
  15. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    Perhaps that's where he gets his chi gung experience also?
     
  16. leftwingtaoist

    leftwingtaoist Valued Member

    pasmith if someone from bjj said that, i could think whatever i want about it, i can even voice my scepticism, but because i don't know anything about chi kung, i can’t go and say that he is stupid and doesn’t know what he is talking about it. If i really cared so much, i would go and try to learn it theoretically first, and if i really really cared about it i would try to learn it practically as well and try it. If it doesn’t work then i can come back here and say its rubbish i tried it, i put so much effort into it and i can confirm that it doesn’t work. Then my “it’s rubbish” statement would have at least some credibility.

    Dan bian i have no problem with people being sceptical about chi kung. I went into it with great deal of scepticism and i still approach everything that i come across with scepticism. Russian proverb says: “trust but check”. I am not a believer. I am pragmatist. Whatever works, no matter which human discipline it comes from, is worth using, even if we have no explanation for how it actually works.

    M1k3...the reason i quoted qung fu panda is because it is one of the best martial arts films ever made. And that particular quote is the best thing in the film.
    i am not angry. For me this is like a meditation exercise in staying calm in the middle of the storm, storm of rubbish and spitting and bias. This is what left wing Taoism is all about. Using life as meditation.
     
  17. leftwingtaoist

    leftwingtaoist Valued Member

    Look guys. No one knows what chi is, is it one thing or many things working together. But what modern science is discovering today is there are some strange forces present in living organisms which cannot be detected or measured but can be observed through their effects.
    This force or forces are most likely electromagnetic in nature because every single process in our body and in the universe is electromagnetic in its core, even when we go down to quantum level.
    Is this force or forces chi that chi kung literature talks about? I don’t know but I think so, because there are more and more overlaps between scientific experiments and chi kung teachings and practices. What is important is that chi kung gives us ability to first experience and then harness that something. For me this is work in progress, a journey of discovery, and it gets more and more fascinating every day.
    You don’t have to do it, but I don’t see why others who want to go exploring this area of human knowledge should not be allowed to do so?
     
  18. m1k3jobs

    m1k3jobs Dudeist Priest

    That is nonsense. If they can not be detected or measured then they can not be observed by their effects or anything else.
     
  19. leftwingtaoist

    leftwingtaoist Valued Member

    i started a new thread on quantum properties of living organisms. you might find it illuminating
     
  20. Oddsbodskins

    Oddsbodskins Troll hunter 2nd Class

    *coughs*

    I didn't want to do this, but, you left me no choice...


    "Use the Force"
     

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